General Knight Changes

And what's wrong with them still being able to break stone walls with bombs or any explosive device....?

 

@bobotype, you are a fucking nerd dont sully my good name with your shit posts.

 

Don't forget about @Trumbles, he's amazing at Archery. He don't need no knight. He can take care of himself. >:C

Other than that... not sure why archers are talked about in a topic solely about knights... I kinda feel like this kinda stuff should be talked about in a PM.. not here. Seems more like a Logic Flame War that's currently in embers ever since boby arrived....
(I also kinda feel like he's a troll.. and we're feeding him... :I)

 

@bobotype, its just like a nerd to call the police... fucking nerd.

 

So what, the answer to playing Archer, a long-range class, is "be at close range"? Backpedaling isn't good enough with the distance closer that is the Slashdash in play. Grapple stomping is inarguably the highest skill ability an Archer has, and not reliable, especially in low ceilinged areas or odd terrain. Continuously spamming 2/3 charged arrows is nice in theory, but jumping/backpedaling Knights are a thing. My suggestion in the Archer thread is that Legolas attack's through-Shield damage potential be increased to full range if all Arrows hit, and simultaneously Arrows be reduced to 10 or 20 a bundle, and then you have a balanced class. One that can "support" or deal damage on its own, but not camp indefinitely, and not be useless alone either.

No, the only other way is Water arrows. Correct me if I'm wrong but Fire and Bomb arrows are entirely blockable.
If he gets too close grapple away (as Ej stated, grapple solves the archer's problems)
As I said to EJ, there are plenty of reasons why it doesn't solve all the Archer's problems, especially in terms of low-ceilinged areas or undependable terrain or water. Besides, grappling away a short distance, then turning to fire, gives the Knight time to charge a gap-closing doubleslash. These are a lot of hoops for the Archer to jump through, and none of them are reliable despite the effort needed.
So you said close-range Legolas, grapplestomping, and Water Arrows bypass Shield. That isn't "myriad". That doesn't top 10.

I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm just pointing out irregularities because they don't help me form an opinion. I fail to see how lag could even cause such a problem in this regard, if you see an Arrow coming towards you at head height then unless you have atrocious lag you know to hold your Shield at head height. If your lag was so bad it isn't likely sending the order to your Knight to press RMB would have even worked, so nothing lost there.

But if Knights are combatting each other with doubleslash instant kill attacks, I'm saying, your chance of getting damage in is unfairly low, and Knights can dodge your attacks with rather unfair impunity by just moving backwards while charging Slash and then moving in to use it. Being able to deal your own damage in more occasions than just Knight versus Knight combat would be good.

I don't claim to be pro tier, but what about ordinary players who aren't #skrubs?
Anyway, even at high tier, Knights still pack more in their toolkit to use than Archers:

Spoiler

pro Knight options:Jab. Slash. Instakill doubleslash. Shields, which counter the Archer's basic attack. Shield gliding. Shield surfing. Shield wall-elevatoring. Stomping. Bombs. Bomb jumping/double and triple bomb jumping. Slash dashing and waterslashing. Mines, Water Bombs and Kegs. Highest health. With basic kit, can destroy all blocks/vehicles except Stone/Doors and Bedrock.
pro Archer options:1/2 Arrows w/range of 20-odd tiles. Fully charged Arrows w/range of 50 tiles. Legolas shots, which counter the Knight's Shield but only at close range. All Arrows require ammo. Grapple to climb, move fast on flat terrain or grapplestomp. Stomping. Water, Fire and Bomb Arrows. Lowest Health. With basic kit, can destroy no blocks, only vehicles.
The main disparity I see there is the Knight has a counter to the Archer's main ability, and the Archer has a counter to that counter, but the Archer's counter only works in short range, which is the Knight's domain. If the Legolas Shield counter had the range of the Arrow itself, and ammunition from there was decreased, balance would be achieved and we might see Archers as a counterpick to Archers.

I explained my theory on this to PandemicCommander, and I think you saw it. TDM maps contain a lot of Y-axis, would that be the right term in a 2D game? So Knights/Archers are in the air a lot more and Archers are below or above Knights more, and there are lots of floating islands to use the grapple or get behind Knights or shoot them from below. Archers are powerful and menacing in TDM because the maps allow them to get around Shields more often.[/B][/B]

 

When two knights getting into battle, archers can easily get the first hit and then the knight just slash one time and the archer kills the knight.

I get a lot of kills that way.

I guess you, Bobotype, are a really bad archer...

 

And here we come full circle with people just accusing me of being bad. That Knight can easily move backwards pre-emptively while you charge your Arrows. I'm not saying it's impossible to hit Knights in combat, I do it myself, but Archers don't "easily" get the first hit. They can get it when the Knight is actually distracted. This just makes the Archer weaker than if you'd picked a Knight who has an insta kill and an accessible explosive arsenal to boot.
Also in response to @Sirpixelot, other people brought up the Archer's supposed effectiveness as a reason that no changes should be made to the Shield. As a matter of fact, @Apronymous was the main culprit in this thread of talking about the Archer's strength rather than the Knight's, as well as that whole retarded "SUUPPORRRRT" shebang. https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/general-knight-changes-ignore-the-op-please.16102/page-12 Also, to anyone saying I don't listen to criticism of my ideas, read that page and see the difference compared to now.

 

bobtype, everyone here, pro archers pro knights, hell even players who arent that good but have been around long enough to know how things go are against you. geti has pointed out all of you points as false or majorly flawed. why are you still continuing this? what are you actually trying to achieve?, please state what your actuall purpose is here, if it makes sense and isnt a complete waste of time then god speed but so far all the evidence points towards it not making sense and being a complete waste of time.....

 

Lolnope. My aim here is to make suggestions which will make Archer gameplay more enjoyable, rather than imbalanced and Knight-dependent like it is now. The ideas which have been clearly refuted I've dropped or altered. Other ones are still being discussed, inbetween large periods of people saying the Archer is fine as is or calling me bad at the game.

 

Annnd once again, come full circle.
I'm out guys, you keep feeding the troll, I'll just sit here watching... I got better things to do than replying to a complete and total waste of space like this guy. Not really sure why no mods have actually attempted to do anything... would be nice to silence him for a bit. Kinda sick of his crazyiness. :I

We may have gone off topic several times thanks to him, can't really tell.. o-o

 

Well my point was that you started the swearing with your whole "your ideas frustrate me so ----ing much ----ing hell I'm the angriest I've ever been ----" schtick. I also don't understand why now you're bringing up the legal system of individual American states, but it really seems to show your penchant for going off-topic. Also your quote of Arcrave's blatantly useless ad hominem takes away any moral high ground you could claim by inexplicably using "less swears". Arcrave deserves a ban for spamming with insults, and so do you for supporting it.

Toplel at yet more bullshit. You definitely aren't doing that now, you're just continuing a nonsensical argument which is designed to bully me rather than factually criticise my ideas. For starters it[the argument, not valid criticism of ideas] belongs in PM, and for seconds IDGAF.

As for you, @Sirpixelot, don't even watch because it seems to be your trend to express dissatisfaction with ideas by loudly proclaiming you're leaving, then coming back about 8 or 9 times, as the earlier pages of this thread attest. Please, just go. Calling the person a "troll" and "waste of space" who is supplying IDEAS is in itself a waste of space. Honestly.

Since these suggestions don't seem to be going anywhere with the people in this thread, may I please direct anyone who is interested to my other different balance ideas in the Archer thread, which I like better and have not been answered: https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/archer-changes-general.16831/page-21

 

That makes sense. Welp, I'll just do what I said I'll do before. Watch. owo

 

Mfw bobotype completely ignores Auburn's point about how his definition of enjoyable differs from others.

 

Well considering people are ignoring much of what bobotype himself posts, I'm not at all surprised. I may not agree with a lot of the things he said, and I think it's fine when people do that, but posting gifs, pretending a regular discussion on a regular forum is 4chan, and in general instead of addressing any of his points (as Auburn has done, and Geti has done on several occasions, though the former maybe in a more animalistic way more suited for imageboards) you seem content with calling him a "troll" (which was a word which once just meant deliberate deception for laughs, and now means "anyone I disagree with") or attacking his ability to play the game (when understanding in regards to mechanics are the important thing, and that doesn't necessitate being a pro or having skills, just using your head)

If this update has shown anything to me, it's how entitled some people are to the way they believe knight is supposed to be, which is fine. It just means any changes are going to get people riled up, and anyone suggesting them as well, because everyone is eliciting almost hyperbolic levels of passion. I believe some of the recent changes are too much, and some of bobotypes ideas are completely nonsensical, but it would be wise to take the others into consideration over a period of time, and not in the timeframe, again, one would be putting into the thought it takes to make a post on an imageboard. And not a real forum.

 

i always post like it's an imageboard. it's easier to reply like that than make 600 word replies discussing 7 different changes to the game at the same time.

 

I can't believe you people are still going on about this. I told you before to quit the flame baiting and the flaming.

 

What is the Lolnope for?? are you actually suggesting im wrong when clearly im right i think your Lolnope was a defense mechanism against my clearly obvious explanation as to whats starting to happen. your angles are falling apart at the seems due to sheer unaccepted support. you cant tell me you arent cornered right now, your 12 year old response of Lolnope shows how cornered you really are infact.