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Highlight useful items for your class (on [C])

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Diprog, Oct 28, 2017.

?

Do you want to see this feature in game?

  1. Yes

    18 vote(s)
    48.6%
  2. Yes, but needs some changes

    9 vote(s)
    24.3%
  3. No

    10 vote(s)
    27.0%
Mods: Rainbows
  1. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    Hover your cursor over another player, and press [R]. It adds an arrow above their head.

    Your reaction is basically the point that Fuzzle is making. Few people know about it, and fewer people use it.
     
    Fuzzle and bru-jaz like this.
  2. platy1knight

    platy1knight Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    143
    One of the main complaints you hear from begginers is that they don't understand what is happening , adding this will surely help solving this problem .
     
    ValiantVoyager likes this.
  3. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    First of all, I think the basic idea is good, and visually it also looks good. I have a couple of concerns though.

    The highlighting implies a builder can "only" pick up materials, which is wrong. I think that if things are going to be kept intuitive, all objects that can possibly be picked up should be highlighted. But if that's the case, this doesn't really solve as many problems. Objects will still be easier to spot, of course, but that's it. One could possibly change the pickup system so that classes are actually limited to picking up relevant objects.

    Highlighting does also not really help when objects are overlapping, which often happens. I've suggested making objects repel each other a little to avoid overlapping, but the idea was not well received.

    Some have expressed performance concerns, and how this highlighting could be limited, and how not everyone would want it (being elitist or whatever reason). What if highlighting was only active if help was enabled, so as to cater to newbies?

    A valid point was made though. Will it actually end up being used, or is this a "waste" of time? Are there, perhaps, more pressing concerns? Pickup order, for example, has always been an annoyance for me, since way back. Again, I think avoiding overlapping solves that problem, and it also helps with this highlighting idea.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  4. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,578
    Highlighting makes the "useful" items appear to the front, even when these are hidden behind grass, trees, or other "useless" materials. It should be useful especially for new builders because this class is quite more complicated to start with.
    Performance is not much of a problem now because it "detects" what items to highlight very efficiently (= spread accross ticks, to avoid lag spikes), the only bottleneck left is GUI functions being dead slow. But then again it runs only when highlighting items, which now is done only after about half a second later.
    As for people not noticing the feature, there's no reason it couldn't be hinted as other helps. If newbies turn off help or ignore it then we have an issue with the help not with such features.

    About the [R] key: The reason no one knows about it is because it doesn't have any visual feedback. When you tap it without realizing you should be aiming someone in particular, you won't even notice what it's supposed to do (and it's not like the gray arrow is noticeable anyway).
     
    bunnie and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  5. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    It wasn't a waste of time since I had fun coding it (but I think it wasn't fun for Asu to optimize it).
     
    bunnie and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  6. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    Just to make it clear; I did not mean your effort was a waste. I just pointed out what was already kind of pointed out, that perhaps this isn't the best (most important) thing for the developers to spend their limited time on. At least if this becomes a feature no one is really going to use/enjoy. It's a risk.

    Also, is this going to cause an influx of lots of new players? It's unlikely, I think, so I kind of wonder why "newbie"-friendly is apparently such a big topic at this point. I doubt people quit playing KAG only because it was hard to locate loot on the ground. It's more likely the game didn't fit with their taste, or they just grew bored (which I feel I can't blame them for, since even I grow bored of it after a while).

    It's a small, but nice, improvement that has probably come years later than it should have (in some form or another).
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  7. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    It's only me and Asu working on this feature (took 1-2 hours for now), so nobody spent much their limited time, if you care about that.
    And this feature won't affect an influx of new players, only ads will. And this feature might help them with getting into the game, yeah.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  8. PooManCHU

    PooManCHU Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    93
    I have hardly ever actually seen dropped goods get wasted, the only time that happens is if a builder covers the goods with some blocks blocks. as someone who does keep my eye's out for dropped goods i like it when someone o the other team doesn't see dropped goods becasue i can take it back to my team or use it myself, i think there should be a sense that you were skilled and kept your eyes open, and the other guy was too busy looking were he was going and becasue of that you can get to pick up his heart, bomb mats whatever. besides we already have auto pick up for class items. i also just find glowing auras visually irritating and immersion breaking. but yes it is true that it could help noobs. so if this does back implemented i hope there in an option in the menu to turn it off
     
    bru-jaz and Diprog like this.
  9. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    Finally a good reason for voting "No"
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 31, 2017, Original Post Date: Oct 31, 2017 ---
    Making a detection radius can balance it (Asu's idea), maybe 15 tiles length.
     
  10. Turtlebutt

    Turtlebutt Arsonist Tester

    Messages:
    60
    If new players might not see it, it could be implemented in the cheatsheet or in the tips compartment.
     
  11. Element_Paladin

    Element_Paladin Shark Slayer Tester
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    64
    it would be wise if you made it so that players could only detect items that are not obstructed by dirt walls, so if a builder were to look for wood lying around, he wouldn't see the rat tunnel. Not unless you are trying to get rid of ratting, though
     
  12. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    Items in full darkness are not highlighted.
    Maximum darkness is 0, minimum - 255 (max brightness). Items darker than 40 can't be highlighted.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
    bunnie likes this.
  13. I'm pretty sure someone had been playing too much pubg
     
  14. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Ok, so where are we at with this? I don't want this PR sitting there forever, so we need to get to the point to either
    • close it and say sorry Diprog maybe put this into a mod and post it to resources
    • Or merge it into vanilla.
    Things that need to happen before I'm happy to merge this:
    • We probably need death tips or f1 lower-left tips as part of the PR for it to be merged, so that new players who don't read the news can find out about it other than by a mistake.
    • I don't know that this is "worth" having on the esc cheatsheet but I'm open to thoughts there?
    • We need to argue any balance concerns or just accept that not everyone will be 100% satisfied. I think that there's not much wrong with it balance-wise, but has anyone who has concerns tested it out and come up with specific changes that they'd like? I'd love to see them before the PR gets too stale.
     
  15. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist THD Team Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    505
    I've always thought the esc cheatsheet was for controls and core gameplay mechanics so I don't think this would be suitable to put on there.
     
    Geti likes this.
  16. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    I'll try to host a server today with that change to see how it works.
     
    Geti, bru-jaz and Biurza like this.
  17. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Thanks. Probably worth putting it on public version without test build changes and ping folks on discord to get a hopefully-half-decent player count.

    That's indeed why I don't think it fits there, but would definitely benefit from an f1 tip and death tip.
     
  18. Pineapple

    Pineapple Shark Slayer Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. KAG Competitive League
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    49
    I saw this quite a while ago, and I would like to see how this works. One question, does it only highlight the items your class would need?
     
  19. Diprog

    Diprog Bison Rider Tester
    1. FUN Servers

    Messages:
    149
    Yes
     
  20. Pineapple

    Pineapple Shark Slayer Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. KAG Competitive League
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    49
    Okie! Sounds cool
     
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