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Devlog [KAG] Build 1591 - Maps and Bombs!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Aug 28, 2015.

  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Re: flaccid bombjumps - its hard to do with ping of course but to keep the bomber closer to you you can throw it kinda forward - it'll make your jump go more upwards than ahead though which can really ruin your possible distance. The pingspikes really wont help though ofc.
     
  2. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    439
    I thought I was the only one with this problem, I thought I didn't remembered how bomb jump haha. I lamented on myself I thought, "Damn why i'm so bad >_<"
    but this is because of the nerve of the bomb? it reassures me on one side, but it's for me one more reason to increase the ranks of a tile of the bomb :p.
    Geti I know you want to spend your time on TR now, we talked a lot about that before ahah. But changing the range of the bomb is so long to change?

    Also honestly at the beginning I did not liked TR at all!
    The grahismes / gameplay etc ...
    But after watching your few updated concerning the Medic and this picture:
    [​IMG]

    I thought,finally the graphics is not so bad, And the medic that Kag waited for so long will be available for this game, so why not?

    But this game is far from being beautiful as KAG is.
    Frankly for a 2D game, no one can say otherwise, Kag is graphically beautiful. Even Kag Classic was good.

    If I can give you a advice Geti it's try to Improve the TR graphics before releasing it officially, it is my point of view but I find this game graphically not beautiful enough to give me the desire to play it.

    May be I make a mistake, and they are not really the graphics who are bad, may be it's just some decorations.
    Exemple : i find this decorations :
    [​IMG]
    really horrible!
    I do not like this color orange / brown.

    I also know that the graphics do not make a game, but when the graphics are not great (I hope not offend you by saying that, take it as critical to improve the game) it does not even feel like to try it ...

    with my sincere greetings and my great respect for your work!

    ~ Snake

    Ps: continue to exchange words with the community! This is how we recognize a good developer listens to its community.
    And it is this kind of developers that players want to see.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2015
  3. AJFaas

    AJFaas Base Burner
    1. supr sekrit cln [skrt]

    Messages:
    164
    If you connect it all together its kinda clear why I dont like in what direction kag is going. You changed kag for the worse for the knights throughout the time you have been developing on it(I cant really talk for other classes). That is my main issue with, that youre still balancing the game even after it got a full release. I suppose, as you told me, that you will try to release it in a better state in the future tells me that you think how it is going now, isnt the best it could be.

    I guess the bottom line of it all is... What I gathered: You released kag too early and shouldve balanced kag before it went full. Therefor you keep pissing people off at this moment because you keep changing what people love. This cant be helped though and I guess its a sour apple everyone involved has to bite through. For example, the players, because you keep changing what people love in their kag, and you and your team; that even though you have good intentions to make kag balanced and fair, you keep getting hate when you change something, because you take what people like.

    Anyway thanks for the time you made responding to my stuff. I know that you couldve just ignored it and gotten away with it. I guess ill just watch see what you and your team have in store for kag in the future. In a way were all in this mess together.
     
  4. Gofio

    Gofio Gunwobbler x3

    Messages:
    1,090
    A little bit of extra damage for builders would be awesome, though. Right now they lose to archers in melee combat, which is kinda silly.
    In my opinion, archers and builders should keep some distance from knights, and archers should likewise stay away from builders. They can kill them at range with no skill whatsoever, so if an archer gets in a melee with a builder, he shouldn't survive. Just give the builder 0.75 hearts instead of 0.5 hearts of damage. That gives them a reasonable chance if they manage to surprise an archer, as long as the archer doesn't carry any hearts, but he will still be killed by knights.
    You gave them muscle taunting, next step is to let them use those muscles in combat.
     
  5. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    A good balance for builders is the rebalance mods that rayne is working on. No idea if he's still actively working on it tho... In his mod they get axes which cut trees, logs, wood, etc. faster; it also does a heart of damage per swing. It would've been added most likely, had it actually been finished
     
  6. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    @Snake19 the graphics were/are always going to be a sticking point for some people with TR. So far at events they've been very popular with kids and its made the graphics one of the few parts of the game that hasn't gone 5x over time budget. We're not going to redo them. If people want a HD remake they can petition for it in a sequel, we're not planning on working on the same game for years at a time any more, you dont have to look far for the reasons :)

    Keep in mind that our incomes are directly tied to this game, and that around the time of steam release we were totally broke, and had been for almost two and a half years. Balance is always a mess, even huge companies like blizzard and valve get complaints, so imagine the pressure on two indies getting pulled this way and that by a community who cant make up their mind if they want a sandbox or an esport, with rent, bills, and university fees to pay or a kid to support. It's really great to have 20:20 hindsight, but of course there's not much you can do about a release date years in the past; we'll be more careful in future because there's less money pressure now.

    Roger that, and you're welcome.

    Sidenote: we're slowly pulling together a team of (paid) interns that have more energy and passion for the game than we do, and with luck they'll slowly take over more and more meaningful parts of the game. It's not going to be something we can just walk away from, but maintenance and future direction to come from the community is something we've always wanted (it was a large part of why code modding was even included).
     
  7. mehwaffle10

    mehwaffle10 Drill Rusher Mapping Moderator Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    19
    Alright I had no idea where to put this so I figured I'd put it here instead of starting a new thread or something, so here it goes:

    Relating to the bomb nerf, the new blast radius is great in my opinion and greatly raises the skill bar for bombs, but they have an issue, bomb jumps and keg jumps
    Single bomb jumps are just easy to pull off, double bomb jumps the same, but I've had basically no success with triple bomb jumps or double keg jumps, by the time the 2nd bomb detonates you're already way out of the blast range

    I know it's not impossible and can be done, I've done it once in the update but only have reached half the height of a normal double bomb jump, which means i can barely get onto a tower 20 blocks high, let alone keg drop it, and it required about 5 blocks or so for a launchpad to successfully do
    I've been forced to almost completely set kegs aside and return to double bomb jumps and bomb spamming the tower supports unless we have a forward base with a tower, preferably with a tramp cannon or a cata, where as I used to be able to keg jump from virtually anywhere (albeit difficult in many)

    Keg jumps were and are still my favorite part of the game (I was notorious for them), and are in no way overpowered; walking with a keg makes you a much slower prime target, archers can easily water you down or shoot the keg out of your hands or out of the air, keeping the keg unlit in sword fights can be very difficult, anybody can catch the keg with enough timing, and kegs could easily spell disaster for your team as well, especially if the enemy gets their hands on it, be it friendly fire or damaging your own base
    Although counterable, I was easily capable of changing the entire course of a game, either leveling the enemy's base, opening the flag, or wiping their team
    As of the update though, kegs have been reduced to raw kamikaze suicide attempts that have almost no utility out in the field, and I as a knight have lost about half of my ability to single-handedly take the game for my team
    As such, I would like to request a fix for the jump radius of bombs or some other solution to make keg jumps more viable

    This became extremely relevant to me during a very stalemate match that ran for hours, as both teams were forced to launch themselves at each others walls and get slaughtered
    I attempted a multitude of keg jumps in the match, only one of which, coming off of a forward tower with a single bomb jump, was successful
    As soon as the enemy's tower fell and our team regained our footing, the enemy forced a stalemate vote through and everybody left, killing the server
    Returning the viability of keg drops/ bomb jumps would easily have been enough to allow me to push the enemy lines back enough to end the stalemate, potentially keeping the server going too

    Keg jumps added a huge risk to the game that I always enjoy taking, and taking their utility away takes half the fun out of it for me, so taking the time to consider this would be greatly appreciated <3

    p.s. apologies if this is located somewhere else on the forums, I don't go on too often and didn't want to browse half of it to check
     
    Obione5256 and Vamist like this.
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    While I consider your feedback important and understand that keg jumps and keg drops are one of a solo knight's favourite techniques, there are quite a few things that make me pretty skeptical that much needs to be done for the good of the game.
    1. 20 blocks is this high - you can get up with one properly timed bomb jump but from every other class's perspective that's quite absurd when you think 200 stone is required just for the front wall of it without any doors, supports, overhang, etc, and the knight can dish out instakills from above once they're up there (unlike the archer who can grapple up).
    2. Letting one solo knight take down such a huge tower (once properly fortified) reliably and quickly, in a notoriously hard to counter way (even with the 145/170c cost, as you say you had the money for multiple), is very frustrating for the enemy team, no matter how skilled the knight performing the manauver might be. We're talking 5 seconds from lighting the first bomb to collapse for a detonate-on-collision double bombjump keg toss. I think requiring more setup (as you say, a forward tower) is honestly fair for taking down such big structures in such a short time.
    3. In the stalemate situation you described you're much better off firing kegs from a catapult rather than trying to jump and drop them - you can launch a knight holding the keg or launch the keg itself.
    4. As for keg drops on flat terrain, you can get the keg to detonate on landing with a single bomb even on a slight uphill, and even with a relatively limp jump (even-with-limp-jump.gif) - if you perform a strong jump (like the one required to get up that 20 tile tower) and toss the keg downwards you have a larger window to make the toss.
    5. Defensive tower keg drops are also obviously unaffected (though still as risky and dangerous as before).
    I understand that it's quite frustrating to lose an advanced technique that let you carry but this
    is not our idea of a fun, multi-class team game anyway. You can still have a huge impact, but the five second turnarounds we were seeing before aren't a good thing, as far as we're concerned.

    Sorry I cant be of more help. We've been ignoring petitions to remove keg drops outright if that's any consolation.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron, Noburu, heX_ and 2 others like this.
  9. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    How do you make an HD remake of a pixel game? Do you add more pixels per pixel for a pixel image? So that the pixel per pixel ratio when viewed is more pixelated and pixel colored then pixeled before?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
    Mariox222, FuzzyBlueBaron and Noburu like this.
  10. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    For TR we'd probably double the res, increase the framecount and up the number of colours to 16 or something. For KAG double the res would probably do it but I shudder to think about 1024x1024 KnightGender.png files tbqh, and you get less leeway with low framecount anims at higher scales.
     
    Noburu, Mariox222 and Fellere825 like this.
  11. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    Would you add oculus rift support and a pneumatic shaker so that when the screen shakes your whole setup shakes? That would be real immersion. You can also have it attached to a keg for draft beer that can only be drawn from when you pay in game money. You can also have a truck parked right outside people's houses to take them into foreign battlefields. Then you can set up your own PMC and have a fun time in the Middle East eating hummus.
     
    CowboyDan, makmoud98, EhRa and 4 others like this.
  12. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Yes.
     
  13. Furai

    Furai THD Team THD Team Administrator

    Messages:
    3,116
    I'm kind of bored of doing full post about just a small hotfix so I'm posting here instead.

    I've just pushed to release changes to the IP of Australian official servers. Recently @jrgp changed hosts and the IP of the servers changed. It should significantly improve quality of gameplay on the Australian servers.
    The hotfix just makes the new servers gold in the server browser.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron, EhRa and Solaris like this.