KAG's Dying Competitive Scene

I have no problems with Snake being in charge. I think that it is great in general that thought is being put towards the competitive scene again.

I agree with Colar that a permanent league would be better. What might be even better is if the organizer created a schedule for each clan that commits to the league each season. That way every clan could see matches occur with a variety of different clans. But although great in theory I realize that pre-determined schedules would be a pain in the ass to maintain. Whatever the case is, Elo rankings are good and there should also be a way to keep clans accountable for completing CWs

 

I SECOND THY MOTION option 2

 

I'd say that the best option is to have a kind of global elo rating both for single player and clans. Tournaments should be organized with maybe a little prize at the end (custom titles or.. mh.. well something that clearly says "yo bruh just look at meh... git gud naw"). I know it will be hard to implement this but i also think it's totally worth.

Also giddamnit if you fine dudes of thd put in this cool lil game some unlockables it would be soooo much cool. like heads, palettes or some minor customizable details.

 

@Potatobird I don't think defining the K is that much of a problem, constant K seems alright, I think some kind of equilibrium will ultimately be reached and eventually it will all work as expected no matter the exact value. I think your proposal for taking a little bigger than chess is fine, and it will put a little pressure up for the good teams. With K=100, it gives a +/- 100 elo when teams with 1000 elo difference fight together and +/- 50 elo when teams are same. Basically, +/- in elo = K when there is a big difference and = 0,5K when there is no difference in ELO.
I think it's a good system ;)

 

I think you did not understand, more a clan play matches and more points they get! All clans will gonna try to make the most possible matches for win the most of points! Of course some clans will only do a few games, but that's their peril because they will have just a some points, and they can not enter in the second set/part of the tournament.
Basically, a clan not very strong who wins that half of those games, but who play 20 matchs will have more points than a clan who played just 5 but who wins them all!

So, small clan have an advantage! The goal is to make the most possible matches.

In addition, for each clan can fight against each clan that once it will be impossible for big clans to "farm" the small clans.

Nevertheless I am not against a ELO system.

As you wish, I volunteered because when I get involved in something, I always finish it, unlike some people who start a tournament but do not finish it. :/

I would suggest to Colar which is proposed to organize the tournament with someone because from what I've seen, the ELO system is filled of equation.
So, a teacher of Math like @Colargolator can be useful haha

 

I said and I repeat, I agree to the ELO system.
I can change the rules of my tournament and put an ELO system instead.

Regarding clans afraid to play with the lag, I think you made reference to the nova?
Well, if they want to become the best, they will have to play intercontinental games.
End.

 

Lol even if it is a reference to our clan whatever. What really needs to happen though is that there needs to be some guarantee (or close to it) to have a level playing field where all clans involved play the same amount of matches. It would be nice if we could work out scheduling or something for a "regular season" and then have a playoff of 4, 8, or however many seeds are deemed necessary. The challenge system grants more freedom, but will it be fair if a clan who has a 13-5 record gets snubbed from a playoff while teams with better records but less challenges (5-1, 4-0, etc.) make it? No. Which is why MLK or whatever the next era of competitive KAG will need to be structured better to prevent unfortunate mishaps like this.

 

@Chukka @TheDirtySwine

 

What it generally comes down to is that we all play for fun. Whether it be pub matches, clan wars, gather, or whatever else. I'm sorry but I don't want to spend 2 - 3 hours playing in extremely laggy conditions where everyone is bitching and moaning. I really don't think that'll be fun or us nor the other party involved.

There is the "we can take turns being laggy" argument where you switch servers. Well either way your enemy is skipping, stuttering, and flat out teleporting. Doesn't sound fun to me but if you disagree please enlighten me.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 12, 2015 ---

If you want to have more clan wars, try not to monopolize for your region. It's the same problem that we had with Zen and Frisson. Everyone wants to join the best clan in their area because everyone wants to be the best. So when you have a clan of ~20 veteran players and complain that there are no EU clans to fight, I don't have sympathy.

Realistically you only need about 7 players for a clan, though you can get by with 5 active ones. So your clan by itself can be split into 3-4 smaller ones. A smarter approach however, would to divide yourselves into groups of 2 - 3 players, who would need to recruit ~3 more players. They may not be top tier rekking machines but if you want competitive KAG to grow you have to introduce it to more people.

In a perfect world with this system you could create 6 - 10 clans with this method. They would be small, scheduling may take some more effort, but in the end you'll have more people to fight. I know this isn't a perfect world so lets just say you split AG# and make 5 clans. You've more than doubled the EU clan lineup right there. Just think about this.

 

The same can be said for syn, nova, and fist

 

@Snake19 I think we can totally share the work. I still think we need a permanent ranking for clans and permanent "following" of clan wars happening with official rules set once and for everyone. As far as maths go, I would gladly take that over myself, as I already stated, and manage the ranking and "validation" process of clan wars (I am not imposing myself, I would like to, but if someone else wants to do it, let him manifest himself)
It would then be really cool to have season tournaments ON TOP of the permanent league, like a good side dish. It would maybe need to be shorter than what you proposed for it and what was made by MLK, because we saw in every kag competition they tend to lose interest pretty fast. Maybe a format more closer to what you did with world cup? I think you have experience in organizing these tournaments and you would make a perfect fit for this job ;)

We would also need someone to take over the clan validation from "starting clan" into "competitive" scene. Probably giving all the work and responsability to a single person (spidey) regarding competition was not a good idea. We are many people involved, we can share the stuff!

 

Also: promote gather and bring back http://gather.splittingred.com/ stats to stimulate competitiveness. I'd like 5 or more matches a day like we used to have in classic, instead of the current 1/week. Our playerbase can handle it, especially how classic gather was premium only and now everyone is "premium" and we have more players too.

 

Really agree with this. If you'd stop competing amongst yourselves, split up, and introduced some new people to the competitive scene, you'd get a lot farther. New people in the competitive scene may not be the best when it comes to the average skill level of your clan, but they'll get better if you teach them. If they don't learn, you can offload them to another clan, or keep them if you don't mind their skill level and just want the raw manpower.

Having rewards is an absolute must if you want newcomers to stay, though. I'm not saying some people won't enjoy it, but there's not much motivation if you don't like doing it and if there's no reward. Rewards can range from monetary prizes to custom artwork to custom theme songs to custom titles to free pizza to custom skins and so on, assuming you have somebody that would be willing to make the prizes for the contestants.

 

The difference is we aren't complaining that nobody will fight us

As for prizes/incentives I can probably provide some KAG keys or something

 

I like your idea of smaller clans, but how do we get that to reality? We take fist and split it in 3 miniclans? That is strange.

Maybe something like 2-3 kingdoms per region (AG example of EU kingdom) and then each kingdom has different clans that fight for it? that way its similar to "conquering". Just saying tho. Silly idea.

For rewards I think titles and custom heads in vanilla would make it worth. Monetary prizes I don't see doable to be honest, in any case kag keys as chukka said are a good idea.

 

Also, for this next tournament we should find ~4 people who enjoy casting and are good at it, and then have them stream tournament matches on twitch in pairs. This will stimulate interest within the KAG community by enabling us to easily watch matches, and hopefully even pull in some random people on twitch watching streams and introduce them to KAG.