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Knight Changes General (ignore the op)

Discussion in 'Balance' started by Duplolas, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. ZuluTickleHands

    ZuluTickleHands Troll King

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    24
    and you still fail to realize how broad the term 'moba' is. You playing these games only reassures your ignorance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena.

    As I said, if you continued to rage like a troll baby, I would ignore you.

    Welcome to my ignore list.
     
    101i likes this.
  2. Invaders

    Invaders Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    249
    Hows about you read that article, @ZuluTickleHands, because KAG doesn't fit that definition pretty much at all, its more of an RTS; there are no 'heros', no 'lanes' and no computer spawned and controlled units.
    Also, how can you even play the full version, you don't have a Gold Account.
    Also, holy fuck you are mad, chill dude.
     
  3. Kouji

    Kouji Cold, Uncaring, Sadistic, Evil and Cruel Meanie Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. REKINS OF SEAS: Super Crew of Ultimate Havoking 2: Return of King of KAG: Chapter 420blazeit - REKIN

    Messages:
    2,910
    Since Zulu has shown us that he is literally beyond a doubt retarded or a professional baiter, he has been banned. Feel free to ignore his posts now.
     
  4. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Damn, I typed a lot , but Kouji saved the day. \o/
     
    Klokinator likes this.
  5. Knighthart

    Knighthart is love Donator

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    151
    By now I believe this whole thread is a bad sign.

    But BTT: Anything left to discuss?
     
  6. Trumbles

    Trumbles Bison Rider

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    This thread is going severely offtopic, but anyway... I don't think Zulu understands that Archers aren't supposed to and should not be able to 1v1 a knight, They're a support class. It's about aim, and TIMING. I stick behind my knights, and i time my shots to make sure that every enemy knight thinks twice about charging that slash, because they KNOW they'll eat an arrow for it.

    Archers in combat vs knights are meant to sneak damage in when the enemy is caught offguard by your own knights. This means archers do worse and worse the greater in number they are. A balanced team should NOT have as many archers as they do knights and builders, as the more archers you have, the less knights you'll have pressuring the enemy, opening up opportunities for those archers to land hits.

    Edit: As an archer, you should be timing your shots for a few situations against a knight:

    - The knight is charging a slash: Try to land your arrow either during the charge-up if he seems to be going for a double, or during the recovery of the swing, so he doesn't cut your arrow out of the air.

    -The knight is turtle-ing, and an ally is about to break his guard: Sneak that 1 heart of damage in, if your knight knows what he's doing and puts a jab of his own in there, it's surprisingly effective.

    -The knight is being over-aggressive, and is focused on finishing off one of your allies: Put as many arrows as you can into them in this situation. If they're spamming slashes and jabs in an attempt to kill someone, they're not going to think about blocking.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
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  7. Galen

    Galen Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    1,262
    Deleted a few off topic posts. Get back to topic please.
     
  8. PumpkingSlice

    PumpkingSlice Base Burner

    Messages:
    474
    MFW I thought I was meant to be the retarded one.

    On Topic: One change I would agree with is that of @BlueLuigi, with the water ammo/bomb defusing the keg. Maybe in addition to this, fire takes the ignition status further/insta-explodes keg? What would be nice is if the water change did happen for kegs, that you shielding (though you'd still be stunned from water ammo/bombs) stops the keg from being defused by water. If that is possible.
    Iirc shielding against fire ammo/bombs negates the effects of fire if it hits your shield.

    So in turn, it would add a small obstacle to keg holders (knights obviously) making it slightly harder to run up to walls and keg them. Though tbh, I personally haven't seen many people use water/fire ammo/bombs effectively or understand how they work. Occasionally just the water bomb spam.
     
  9. I remember in Classic where a skilled archer can easily jump between trees and be a huge nuisance to knights, being able to 1v1 them easily. In Beta, this is even more easy to do, because of the grappling hook. The removing of a knight's double slash won't change much. Archers can shoot at a charging double slash knight, and stun them. If we follow this thread's idea, then we would have to tweak other class's stats. Plus in Classic, a knight can easily kill a builder too.
     
  10. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

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    Trees are sadly kind of shorter in Beta... or maybe Knights can jump/slash higher? I dunno.


    On topic: Anyone else annoyed at lit Kegs exploding when popping out of a dead knight? It kind of makes attacking a Knight with a keg a lose/lose situation, because either A) He survives to blow up you and your tower, or B) He explodes upon death, blowing you up and quite likely still getting your tower.

    I feel like kegs should get around a second of invulnerability after popping out a killed Knight, to keep this from happening.

    Also, why do bombs, fire arrows, and other keg explosions not cause kegs to go off or at least be lit? I know making the realism argument never works, but seriously? That needs to be a thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
  11. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    The game is more balanced now than it has been at any other point of Beta, hands down. The issues it does have are super minor and most aren't worth changing, and most issues it DOES have are Knight related, but even those aren't that bad. R-right?
    >Infinite wall climbing with shield(This is an annoying bug, I've seen 4 different knights do it in a single round before)
    >Unbeatable sploding kegs...another bug...really dumb...
    >The shield hitbox doesn't appear to be all that consistent...probably also a bug...
    >Slashing with kegs, is this a bug or is this official now, if it is official please someone slap me out of this nightmare.

    Kegs are...I want to like their existence but they are so finicky I can't. Not only are they impossible to stop but they have become another staple of "Most useful for one man teams", because not only does no one wanna be around THAT THING when someone is holding one but also a bad player with them is just going to explode mid-field no matter how well defended he is(and even if he survives a bad player would have to get lucky to do anything effective), but a skilled player with them can do everything themselves because slashing...dang slashing with kegs man...They aren't terrible...but they are a pain.

    >Chain exploding kegs
    All my CreativeMode yes.

    Edit: Ctrl Z deleted half my message dang it!
     
  12. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

    Messages:
    349
    [​IMG]
    Wall
    Castle of text time biches

    Heads up, this post is over character limit, so its gonna be in parts
    Part 1:

    Please don't leave useless posts, i know duploas already told you off, but your a good guy radio, plz dun do dis ;-;

    Same thing warr, you baddie u ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)


    Yeah..... no
    Double slash is usefull for, i dont know, maybe doing two slashes simultaneously in combat to kill knights, even ones that are not turtling.

    ohhh galen u baddie ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Well you say that, but in fact class balance is part of this game, and while yes knight should be the big dog forcombat, he should not be killing EVERYONE who isnt a knight over and over again.

    Most of kags builders are shit, also over hangs may stop climbers but they make archers job of shooting people attacking the tower much harder.

    Duploas has you in his counter post, so much destructive power in kag these days builders be liek


    You right there
    Except those cost coins, require being a squishier class who has to just get there.


    Asu, i luv ya, but how would this make knights useless? knights would still rape people up da but in close combat.

    I guess i dont have a problem with that, its just knights can get into range so may ways its insane, there so versatile they can complete most tasks the other classes can with bombs and kegs

    seeeeee kraiser!

    So your saying two good players would actually have a prolonged fight becuase of their skill distinguishing them from a good player rekting shreking a pleb?

    why is that a bad thing?

    Unless another class helped out................

    Again the hole over hang thing >:I


    Invaaaaaderssss, dont be like radio too >:I
    u baddie

    And double slashers aren't?


    well said


    miss u ;-;

    Thats a bad idea, then games really would last forever like auburn said

    heh, yeah.....
    Our community is so nice :3

    I think it will make other classes killed less often by knight by reducing the distance of lunge which is not as fast with double slash but will get you further in a short distance of time.

    fixing shield hit box would do this

    Which by the way is a problem
    Knight is so mobile now >:I

    Not really

    (other people explain so im not going to :3)

    If you dont have archers, or builders......

    (omg another thing that would balance teh classes!!!11!)



    first off, its changing a piece of knight, like i said to asu he would still be the big dog for combat because of sheild\

    also dun leave ;-;


    wow, never thought of that, good point!


    Really good points, double slash can be sustained for so long with pauses in between slashes wich = baddie

    why?

    i can see why your post are is bad


    This is the sugestions sub forum right?
    (sorry kerdam still luv u <3)
    Also dun be so men >:I

    Yeah, ive noticed this too, pretty weird man

    People aren't playing archer cause they get rekt by the few good archer that practice enough that they don't get raped by knights

    Also your hole workforce thing is just pointing out the lack of class balance for attacking/combat
    (still luv u thou)

    Get back in your hole u


    Your making good points about how balancing itself works but the class balance needs to be global, your balance points don't just add up, archer needs to be balanced in combat, not just in support


    Praise it brother

    Knight isn't faster then archer, except in DEEP water, but i do mostly agree with your comment about archer being like a spectator

    hav sum munnies
     

    Attached Files:

  13. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

    Messages:
    349
    Part 2:
    Again class balance at least for archer needs to expand to combat for the game to be truly balanced, at least in my opinion

    As it stands knights are

    While archers are

    Knights don't need to be nerfed to the point that archer would be rekting all day everyday

    Well it would let them last longer, and "support" i guess

    Unless they right click before it hits them

    which is kinda easy..............

    If you have coins, which requires farming or kills/hits

    That's so wrong its funny

    So happy that someone else agrees with me on shield

    SOMEONE ELSE THAT PLAYS AWESOMENAUTS


    Like i said you can just hold up your shield at the last second


    I agree


    Keg is a problem, but not for the reasons you list, its destructive power is so great that it alone is fucking builder just because of its use, sure bomb arrows and mines are bad but the keg is the big dog, its also making attack builders less appealing because of its shear destructive power.


    Catapults............................


    There have already been many posts on many threads about how special ammo is not viable unless you buy it with a specific goal in mind you can go achieve right then IE: blowing up a weak wall or burning a building.


    And yet its not a problem that entire teams go knight.............


    Which it is
    Knights with kegs just go through everything now

    Again, catapults, plus if your just an archer, and no one else is around not much you can do.




    And the ground...........


    Don't get me wrong i think its a dumb idea to, but 4-5 good archers should be able to take out 1 knight



    That says something about how much you have played................




    Even though they should be
    (i still luv u luigi <3)

    disgusting yes, but counter able with your own builders



    Well you had to have good aim, and it only worked if it was only one knight, more than one and you need more archers
    Only thing it seemed to do was encourage was archer teamwork and not going off on your own as knight
    dose not seem so bad to me but i could be wrong as allways


    Good idea, id also like to see how having builders only be able to light kegs would change the game, something for someone to test


    Make a bad post again


    They would get off one arrow before he caught up with them


    Kegs were technically added build 234


    If the knight that used it didn't guard it


    To through at the enemy probably miss and then have them use to drill you doors? good idea!


    No, it means they can get past you


    So that one of the most destructive and overused items in the game requires a small amount of team work.


    Unless there pushing.....


    Again, they can get past, and archers usually don't have water arrows on them.


    Kag isn't a moba i agree, but during my classic days it had some striking resemblances with mobas
    tunneling was actually a thing back then and above ground and below were like lanes in many games
    people kept saying that more knights or archers or builders were needed above ground or bellow
    people usually stuck together kinda like minions spawning
    it was cool but i definetlly agree current kag is NOT a moba


    For how long?


    If a knight comes to a tower and stays at the bottom shielding I think a archer inside the tower should be able to kill him if he just stays there forever shielding doing nothing else


    I think they should be a defensive class more like in classic
    (oH nOes soOMEonE saSy we shouLd maKe ThE gaMe likE clAsic!!!!11! gEt tHEm!!!1)



    Knights can jump much, much higher

    When kag beta first came out a ton of people were wondering why all the classes were on the moon
    in classic movement is much slower, jumps are lower, and over all movement is rolled back (i think that's a way of saying it)
    This meant that buildings were much bigger obstacles and because the only big destructive power was a cata which, at the time required resources, builders were needed to make them. In essence if you wanted to get past a building you better have a builder. Not the case in full release sadly

    good idea


    In classic servers that had kegs moded in most had kegs set off kegs, it should be thing along with the other triggers you mentioned



    (just gonna have one quote for this post since im almost done with my creation)
    Yeah, beta is more balnced

    Wall climbing was a bug until it was posted in bug section and knight fans went ballistic *COUGH BLUELUIGI*
    kegs have been addressed in this thread and i agree
    shield hitbox is something everyone wants to see fixed thankfully
    slashing with kegs has been called "the worst kind of abuse" by geti, but it was in game so prob just talking out of his ass or some thing whether they plan to make keg attacks work, or make you not be able to attakc with a keg (please yes) i dunno


    I think the biggest problem with knight (which i have sorta mentioned in other parts of this post) is that you really don't need builder or archer for almost anything, most tasks can just be accomplished by everyone going knight and good oll keg spam, even in professional teams *coughzen* the hole team goes knight and occasionally has a builder for attacking and building tunnels, but even when they do get a builder he dosent build sure he might make a tunnel here a work shop there, maybe some team doors in the enemy base or some blocks to stop enemy's using doors, but he dose not build towers or repair them. In one game with one such team there only flags were open half the match, the builder never did anything, as the only archer on the team i got to the flags fine, but because they were just all knights, and good ones at that, my team was so pushed back that getting back with the flag was nie impossible, even after i had done this several times they STILL didnt patch it up, becuase they just didn't have to.

    So yeah theres my post, hope ya liked it
    Sorry if i especially hurt anyone's feelings, tried not to be a baddie
     
  14. dude. that. was. text.
     
  15. Knighthart

    Knighthart is love Donator

    Messages:
    151
    tl;dr
     
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  16. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Bison Rider

    Messages:
    590
    I like wall climbing. It makes me feel superior to people who don't know which buttons to tap.
     
    Knighthart likes this.
  17. Galen

    Galen Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    1,262
    @epenow, please use something like spoilers next time you're going to post such a wall of text.

    No one is going to bother with reading a wall like that if it's just a bunch of quotes anyways.
     
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  18. epenow

    epenow Oppressed banana cookie
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

    Messages:
    349
    I don't know how to do spoilers :c
     
  19. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Bison Rider

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    590
    have you ever looked at bbcode before
     
  20. NightCurse

    NightCurse Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
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    hi guys, i read a bit now in this thread and my idea for the double slash are, that the knight class get some stamina which ist getting lower after doing double slash and that knight´s need to wait until stamina a recharged before he can do double slash again, this should solve many problems and a good idea.
    maybe a stamina system in general would be a good idea?