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Make gold [possibly the rest too - stone, bedrock etc] visible on the minimap

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by bunnie, Aug 27, 2017.

?

good idea?

  1. Of course

    48.5%
  2. No, should stay like it is now [say why in comments]

    45.5%
  3. No, but there should be an alternative [say what alternative in comments]

    6.1%
Mods: Rainbows
  1. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,290
    Before you say that this is never going to happen and that it would be too major and too controversial, hear me out

    Were you ever wondering where the fuck stone and gold was on weird maps? Were you digging dirt for 5 minutes on any of Punk's maps - for example, Punk123_AlienFrogAssault - just to find nothing but dirt and bedrock? Shocked to find out stone was only located near tent and at mid? Then this suggestion is for you!

    It's a bit stupid that you have to dig, dig and keep digging on big, weird maps if you need some of that beautiful building siege and tunnel material called GOLD. On some maps it's in weird places you'd never expect it to be in, sometimes THERE'S NO FUCKING GOLD LEFT.

    And you have no way of knowing that. Similiar with stone.

    The worse is, that you could actually find out - and not many people know about it; you'd have to open console and type /savemap mapname. You could actually fucking go to kag folder / base / maps and see in the mapname's png where the goddamn gold and stone is.

    It shouldn't be like that. It's way too unfair. Actually, I don't think many people except me know you can do this.

    It would make sense to fix it then; make gold, stone, actually everything show on minimap. That way new players would know where to dig to help their teammates if they are constantly being rekt by tryhard knights. It's natural that worse players would go builder and dig or go archer and camp rather than go knight and try to fight - and get rekt hard and insulted for jabspamming. It's a simple hierarchy; new players could be minecrafters and stay in base - the better ones on the front. But we're getting off-topic now...

    Now, you could say that it's too big of a change. That you're supposed to keep digging and digging until you find the gold somewhere.

    That argument is stupid; you'd have to memorise where shit is on every map. Or you could just play the A-B-C game to figure out where you should dig: keep digging down, or maybe left or right. Finding gold shouldn't depend on luck.

    So why not make gold, stone, even bedrock show on minimap? I'm not asking for rats to be marked and shown in flashy colours on the map - I'm asking a simple thing - I'm asking for a QoL tweak. People who fucked with the console and found out about some commands already have an unfair advantage - like me. Maybe eventually every veteran would find out about this; it'd become another part of new players' complaints that "the veterans and tryhards are rekking way too hard and this game is unwelcoming to new players".


    Take any random 10 maps from the official mapcycle; at least 6 of them will have partially weird gold/stone placement

    Look at this abomination as an example:
    SJD360_Overdose.png
    When I /savemapped, I didn't believe it at first. The stone placement - and in some parts, gold - makes no fucking sense. That thick, bigger than @daskew87's dick (sorry) line of dirt is probably the bane of many gold-diggers' existence.

    Inb4: "fault of mapmakers". More bullshit arguments. It makes sense the floor isn't made of gold and that gold is actually supposed to be underground; there is no way to put gold in places where every person would expect them to be. People could logically come to the conclusion they should dig down - and then maybe to the right... or maybe to the left? They have no fucking idea where specifically the gold is.

    I do not believe there is any alternative to fixing this problem. Remove the /savemap command; people still can go in the kag folder / base / maps and try to find out maps currently being played on the official server. Even if you'd want to make people not be able to look at the maps' .png - why? WHY? So people spend hours looking for gold in weird places instead of actually helping their team?

    Now, you could also leave it like it is. Another question - why'd you want to? As I said, I fucked with the console, I can look at the .png while others don't know they can, I have an advantage.

    Maybe I'm missing something, maybe there could be a a good alternative to it. Please explain; meanwhile, now I'll believe making gold, stone, - actually wait, maybe just show the .png? why not? - shown on the minimap is the only fix to this problem.

    TL;DR Make stuff, including gold and stone, show on the minimap. Why? Because you shouldn't be forced to dig in weird places in hoping of getting gold; because you can actually see the .map png - and most people don't know about it; because shitmaps; because it makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2017
  2. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Make it visible in the actual game, maybe? Because it "sparkles", or something. That might actually be easier than making it visible on the minimap.

    But anyway, I think maps these days are highly recommended to have all gold veins be visible, and most of them should be like that. Many of them probably aren't like that. I agree that having to "search" a bunch of dirt or use /savemap is some bullshit.
     
  3. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,290
    gold actually sparkles already - but it's still not really visible everywhere and still an awful alternative to the superior /savemap command.

    I agree on the map part but I think making the mapcycle having 100% perfect maps only still wouldn't fix the problem; no matter what is done, newbies wouldn't zoom out and look at caves that should have gold; they will still dig down while being fully zoomed. An actually good minimap could fix it and make the game more welcoming and logical to new players
     
  4. 4zK

    4zK Horde Gibber Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    70
    currently gold appears to sparkle only when it's exposed to air (pockets) with the help of lanterns, my suggestion is to apply the same effect to completely enclosed blocks of gold (and maybe increase the reach of the lantern's effect, not the actual light though)

    what comes to the "fault of the mapmakers" argument, I think you're in the wrong, fixing the maps is the easiest solution to this in my opinion

    gold in maps - or at least most of it - should either be visible / in contact with air (thus being visible on the minimap) or conjoined with a streak of stone / natural tunnels that obviously lead to it in order to make finding gold easier

    what comes to newbs, you can't really fix anything until a proper tutorial is made
     
    norill likes this.
  5. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,579
    I might be wrong but I think the sparkle doesn't appear in faster rendering mode.
     
  6. erik102003

    erik102003 Shark Slayer Tester

    Messages:
    125
    I disagree, just bcuz i never had any problems with finding stone, and gold actually should be rare, and should be digged for, its a very powerful material that can win a game (for example: bomb bolts)
     
    4zK likes this.
  7. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    I agree. It is an unfair advantage to know where the resources are, and there's no real reason to hide the information. As mentioned, tunnels and such should still be invisible. Perhaps the savemap command could be limited to the server side.

    The current system works fine in a sandbox/adventure mode where you are "supposed" to go search for stuff. The game doesn't really have such a mode though, but it could've had. So, I would suggest adding a way to toggle it in a script.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2017
    bru-jaz and bunnie like this.
  8. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,290
    did you even read the post?
     
    mcrifel likes this.
  9. erik102003

    erik102003 Shark Slayer Tester

    Messages:
    125
    Yesh, ofc i did. And i disagree, i dont have problems finding stone, i dont think it should be visible on teh minimap. And if you actually go to the files to see wheres the stone and gold located, youre just a tryhard. Are you actually gonna remember the placement for every map?
     
  10. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    His "fault of mapmakers" argument involved gold belonging underground. I dont think it is fair for maps to be treated worse because they make gold harder to find(as it really should be if we're being honest). You later state that a streak of stone / natural tunnel should show gold, but does that mean you want gold in every stone streak or tunnel? In order for people to just fix the maps the moderators would have to require a specific type of resource placement out of mappers(forcing our input into their creations), or edit them ourselves at a later date(which is wrong universally). Things that are rare(underground gold, not enough gold for a tunnel in build time, ect) cannot be treated as bad just because the majority of the maps in already fit their own standard. If the map isnt wrong on its own, other maps shouldnt get priority over it.
     
    Vermilicious and bunnie like this.
  11. Just put a lantern next to gold ore on the map.
     
  12. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,290
    hmm, what about making gold act like small lanterns underground? that would be pretty cool
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  13. MechaTrickster

    MechaTrickster Banned Donator

    Messages:
    654
    But that's the fun of it.
     
  14. If you really wanted everyone to be on the same level in that sense I would just make it visible on the minimap. Its nonsense to try and make it "sparkle" more. Just show everything on the map if you want everyone to be on the same level because anyone trying to be super competitive can just look at the map file or have the location(s) memorized.
     
    bunnie likes this.
  15. it's quite a big problem and i think the only sure solution would be to fix maps. other ways to avoid this problem would be to make builder's range of underground sight larger (like in classic), but dunno if it's possible in release kag. also gold sparkling should be made more reliable
     
    epsilon, blackjoker77777 and bunnie like this.
  16. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,290
    I'm actually really surprised by the amount of people voting "it should stay like that now". Are they veterans using the /savemap command? do they want to be the only ones to know where gold is located? or maybe they don't even use /savemap but just like digging in random directions? :huh?:
     
  17. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    It's the closest thing this game has to mining, which in terms of fun is second only to crafting for a certain subset of our community
     
    blackjoker77777 and bunnie like this.
  18. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    I feel like hardly anyone uses savemap and it's not really worth discussing. I wouldn't be opposed to preventing using it online but I'm not too worried about it anyway.

    Few enough people use the minimap tbh, but at least this would provide a no-nonsense "game-approved" way of locating gold.

    I'd be down for it. I probably wouldn't make the minimap show stone and bedrock except maybe as like, contour lines on the edges though. But colouring gold some more noticable colour (red? x marks the spot?) would be fine. Servers that want the "search for the hidden treasure" aspect could just disable the minimap outright.

    Only question is if it should be script side (slower, but provides mod example and can be more easily adjusted by the community) or engine side (faster, none of the community benefits) probably. Someone interested could implement the latter already, of course.

    There's other stuff that's higher priority for my limited time but I'll put it on the list.
     
    epsilon, norill, bunnie and 1 other person like this.
  19. aaaaahhhhhhh just put lanterns on your maps, don't waste time doing something that can be done with placing 1 or 2 pixels on the bit map
     
  20. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    Or a certain subset of game modes/mods. There's not much time to mine and harvest during a busy CTF match. Unless you are digging tunnels, but that's not what I personally would call "fun". Like I mentioned, if the game had a game mode where searching and harvesting was more rewarding and important, the matter in that case would be different.

    Tiles and blobs are precious. It seems unnecessary. A good practice for new maps until a fix is made, at best.

    In any case this is a very minor matter. It took years to appear in this forum, after all. A small issue should be fixed as simply as possible, without messing anything up (mods, maps etc.). Changing the minimap a little so it draws a few small dots seems to qualify as an easy fix.
     
Mods: Rainbows