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Important Discussion Mapcycle

Discussion in 'Groups' started by mcrifel, Oct 3, 2017.

?

Add or no?

  1. Burger

  2. Burrows

  3. EJ_Chambers

  4. Fish

  5. Flatpleasure

  6. Pancake

  7. Punk123_PlatformedPredicament

  8. Snatchmark

  9. Minotaur

  10. Gloryhill

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    It is time to get a map cycle decided.

    Vote in the poll for which maps you want added to the mapcycle, if there is a completely new map you want to be added then post it here and i'll add it to the poll.

    Me and @SirDangalang have already made a start for the mapcycle, we tried to put together a mapcycle with maps of all kinds in there:

    Burger
    burger.png


    An interesting map with almost 2 mids which can be connected to form 1 big mid.

    Burrows
    Burrows.png

    A classic MLK map, very rat heavy in mid but not so much when it comes to taking the flags.

    EJ_Chambers
    Ej_Chambers.png

    A similar map to burrows but done different. Would be interesting to see matches on this map.

    Fish
    fish.png

    "Solid map"

    Flatpleasure
    Flatpleasure.png

    Our pick for the flat map, we feel this is the best of the sort.

    Pancake
    Pancake.png

    Lots of door fights for those who like that sort of thing.

    Punk123_PlatformedPredicament
    Punk123_PlatformedPredicament.png

    The best punk map

    Minotaur
    Minotaur.png

    A bold move to put this here but when me and amin went through the maps folder we liked the idea of the original Shadower_Minotaur. We tweaked somethings to make it flow better and then came to the idea to remove the water below and turn it into a void. I would really like to see what people think of this map.

    Snatchmark
    Snatchmark.png


    We all knew snatchmark was going to be here. Minor changes: Top of mid lowered slightly to encourage taking the top and to make siege spam slightly less effective. Moved slightly forward. And there is now slightly a slight path from the top of mid to the bottom of mid by slightly digging a slight bit of dirt. We can revert to the old snatchmark if that is prefered.

    Gloryhill
    Gloryhill.png

    Amin begged to put gloryhill in. We made a few minor changes to it by adding a little bit of dirt here and there.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  2. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,299
    NO CANYON!!!! :ok_hand: :thumbsup: :100: :joy: :joy: :joy:

    no dignog? :bird:
     
  3. Cruxiat

    Cruxiat Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    116
    honestly snatchmark is so overplayed that if it enters the map pool I'll vomit

    also where is grounds? so many good MLK maps that should be in here ::(:
     
  4. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    We thought about removing maps because we are trying to move away from the flat maps that have dominated the competitive scenes for a while. We still have flat pleasure there for those who enjoy it. If people really want grounds we can add it, it is a discussion after all.

    Snatchmark is there because its Snatchmark
     
  5. Gurin

    Gurin Stop That! Global Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    358
    Trying to change or fix something that doesn't need fixing is a dumb idea. There is a reason they're dominating the competitive scene is because they're simply the best well-rounded maps there is. There isn't any reasoning against that.

    Certain maps encourage certain tactics which in your opinion might be "fun" or "different" than a general flatmap game. Whereas in my eyes I just see either tunneling or camping on most of the maps. As some of the maps have holes underground or passageways, and the other maps with a hill or where mid is at a high point which pretty much means whichever team obtains mid and is fortified gives an impossible mission for the opposing team. This encourages more tunneling as it is suicide fighting uphill.

    Since defending in vanilla kag is stupidly strong, I follow up with that maps that encourage mid camping is unbreakable, no matter how strong the opposing team is (unless it is literal trash but we're talking world cup tier teams). Flatmaps show an even battle between the teams as there is no objective that easily wins them the game such as a hill map or a hole map.

    ------
    shortened:
    -make maps flat because it's balanced
    -don't try and be interesting because in kag interesting maps are bad. Simple & less is good.
    -don't change things that work, it's literally like asking geti and mm to make more spaghetti code (i tried to make a joke but it turned out shit)

    3 cent
     
  6. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    We aren't fixing anything, we are changing things. The reason there has been so many flat maps for the last year is because no one bothered to change it. We have had plenty of wacky maps to do clan wars on in the past. Tried to find a video of the ag vs fist race to the bottom but couldn't find it.

    Could a team really be called the best team if they excel only in one type of map? I think it's time to bring back maps that don't focus purely on brute force and water spam. Having some variety in maps is only good in my book. Again there is still flat pleasure you can play if that is what you want.

    You complain about tunneling and camping, but those 2 happen often on flat maps. Tunneling in general is a pretty shitty strategy in clan wars, you have to sacrifice one team mate for a long while making it easier for your opponent to beat you above ground. If by tunneling you meant ratting, well ratting happens on any map, it's a part of the game by now and hard to stop people from doing it. Camping is also common on flat maps, or do you mean camping in the base? Which is basically giving your enemy a free win on any map.

    I know the meta game per region is different, in EU at least this is how a flat map plays out: One team wins the first push right after the red barrier goes down with a mix of brute force and water. Sets up a massive tower, rains death on the enemy with siege and making it near impossible for the other team to get back. Games always play out the same.

    Funnily enough having an actual mid to claim and not just some flat ground makes it harder to set up. More builder play happens and usually both sides can setup tunnels. Once both teams are setup at mid it becomes a battle over who can destroy the other tunnel first or just ignore the tunnel and push for their base directly. It becomes less which knight can win air slash battles by having less ping and positioning becomes a lot more important. It is harder to water spam now too meaning you actually need an archer now that knows what its doing and not aimlessly spamming water. If you are able to capture mid completely it is a harder position to defend than the middle of a flat map. Making a high wall is near impossible because you'd have to make them at the edge of the middle leaving not that much space between your mid wall and their base wall.

    And so do all different kinds of maps have different play styles.

    And like I have said 100 times by now, if people want more flat maps in the cycle sure but as of now there hasn't been much of a discussion about that. Grounds has been mentioned by cruxiat which I don't mind adding if people want it but no one else has said anything about it.

    -----

    Shortened:
    - If maps are mirrored they are balanced.
    - Interesting maps are the best.
    - Don't fix it if it works, however feel free to spice things up to avoid getting bored.

    I am sorry if I came over a bit defensive and stubborn. It isn't meant like that.
     
  7. Element_Paladin

    Element_Paladin Horde Gibber Tester
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    64
    You should just have it done by November, the polls have spoken about which maps were already voted for

    And plus, that way my job is way easier