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Mexer's Barbed Wire Trap

Discussion in 'Builder' started by Mexer, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    434
    mexer confirmed worst builder
     
  2. Mexer

    Mexer Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. No Control - to be deleted. inactive

    Messages:
    137
    I request a copy of the official confirmation you claim to have obtained. Until then, case remains open but charges are lifted.
     
  3. asger75

    asger75 Haxor

    Messages:
    232
    My official confirmation is this trap.
     
    BarsukEughen555 likes this.
  4. Concave

    Concave Wizzy Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    17
    @Mexer are you going to take that???
     
    asger75 likes this.
  5. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    The question is, will this thread keep straying off topic, or do we want to have actual building discussion?
     
    an_obamanation and asger75 like this.
  6. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    434
    but we are discussing mexer's building techniques tho
    edit: is this goddamn likefarming thread or wtf, posted messages and 2 instalikes
     
    asger75 and Concave like this.
  7. atthetta

    atthetta Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    77
    A bomb-rush would tear the build apart, not worth the stone imo.
     
  8. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    Deleted off-topic posts. "Reviving" old threads is fine if new information is added, and if the original thread still has any relevance. What isn't fine is making posts just to point it out. There's a report button if you think the thread should be locked.

    Regardless, the Classes & Mechanics sections could do with more (on-topic) activity.
     
  9. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    Perhaps if the wall stayed like this the entire match then sure, but I think this is a great base to build upon.

    Pretty much at rush a builder lags behind his ally knights and puts this up basically slowing down or stopping any enemies that best your team's initial rush.

    Enough time for you respawning knights the get back to the front while they try to breach and enough time for you to retreat if they do. Attackers would most likely have used their bombs on your rushing knights and be stumped waiting for a builder or archer to help get past.

    You could minimise the stone cost a bit since really all you need is the wood spike, and if you built it with doors perhaps 1 wood door and 1 stone. Then as resources become available with getting a foothold you can improve it. Then you can spit out multiple barb wire walls across the map as you get territory.

    Also in personal experience toothbrush designs like this are quite easy to repair fast even from scratch as long as you have a source for resupplies on the front like a builder shop.

    If anything it's a nicer design than what I usually build for initial rush or quick territory gaining walls. Can't believe I've missed this thread for so long ::P:
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2017
    an_obamanation likes this.
  10. Mexer

    Mexer Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. No Control - to be deleted. inactive

    Messages:
    137
    It's all nice and pretty until someone like epsilon bombjump-kegs the fuck out of it.
    I've got an upgraded version that's much better, with backwards facing platforms that traps the flies and forces them to drop down onto auto-spikes. It's always satisfying to see faces of ::(: and :rektlord: and :QQ: right before they die. Instant regret hueh.
    I'll upload it when I get out of my exam session from hell.
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  11. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist THD Team Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    505
    Me? You should be more worried of someone like Atheon. :wink:
     
  12. atthetta

    atthetta Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    77
    In a rush, 6x wood planks = 90 wood, causes a lot of delay against enemy knights, easily destroyed but easily prepared and rebuilt.

    Stone is precious in many maps and cannot go to waste. If you build traps to harm enemies then they need to be a lot more efficient and quick than this design imo.
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  13. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    I agree with you there on the point that really this is more of a deterrent for enemies rather than a trap intended to OHKO a ensnared enemy.

    But tbf I prefer stuff like this than building something that adheres to the actual trap definition. I'm part of the camp that usually think traps are a waste of time, especially when I watch builders playing as really good sappers exploiting traps as hidey holes and such. At least with something like this the worst is that it's usually destroyed rather than turned against you.

    Also to clarify when I refer to rush I mean the middle of the map to secure it rather than rushing a flag.
    Platform spam is fine but it doesn't suit my build style as with it being one way it limits your allies range of movement on the map as much as the enemy when they cross a forward facing platform wall.

    The design in the OP allows a position to be fought from and to retreat to from the get go. Instead of a knight being trapped on the front lines to go and die from the next wave of enemy respawns, he could go back through wall after the initial rush to buy items or heal for example.

    Also as a side note (not that you can rely on this in pub games usually) but I think effective use of resupply meta makes resource scarcity less of an issue for simple stuff like this.
     
    BarsukEughen555 likes this.
  14. atthetta

    atthetta Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    77
    Midfield of the game is the most dangerous area for traps and trapping, but can be very well worth it and rack up kills for builders, the key is knowing how and when to navigate midfield. I'm talking about CTF since that's what I always play, but traps can be used for many purposes of course. The argument "traps are not worth it" is a bad argument. What is a trap? A simple spike costs 30 stone. If that kills several enemies then 30 stone is absolutely "worth it". So the "traps are not worth it" point is completely invalid. Anybody who keeps repeating that, I can't take seriously.

    Good traps are easy to build, cheap in resources, and deadly. Granted they are difficult to judge against skilled players and many CTF games. The most common problem for builders are knight bomb-rushes (throwing dozens of bombs at your build) and of course kegs, which are almost impossible to build around.

    That said, I cannot support the OP build for CTF games for a few reasons. #1 you want a trap like this in the midfield where it's effective. But #2 it's time-consuming and resource-intensive to build. It's not worth it, in my opinion, for the CTF games I play in. There are better uses of the resources, and time. I can see the effectiveness of the trap design when placed against a dirt hill side, though. There is an exception. But crafting this trap out in the open, in CTF, it's just going to get bombed to hell and walked through. So the stone cost would be wasted.

    Wood and dirt spikes are almost always a liability in CTF games, too. It's too easy to turn dirt and wood spikes against the other team, becoming a liability for your own team.
     
  15. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    Thing is the reason why trap making isn't really favoured is because ultimately the objective of ctf is to capture the flag. KD farming is a means to an end in order to grease that wheel, which for the builder in this example you assume he buys items for his allies to use from the money he earns from trap kills.

    However I feel that ultimately this is defensive building. The objective is to sandbag the enemy, earn coins to feed the war machine then push with ballistas, kegs, bomb arrows etc. It's a legitimate strategy but one many find dull compared to the more offensive ways to play builder; such as sapping, drill rushes, forward tunnel bases, forward siege establishment, creating barracks in forward positions for allies to heal and resupply.

    Trap making therefore is usually put at the end of the list to most of these main builder duties as they can decide a CTF win more dynamically.

    It's not to say that it's worthless, but it's a very difficult game for a team with mainly trap making builders going up against sappers like Franek, 8x, Colargorator, TheRice and many others.
    In comparison the only trap making builder that has really stood out to me in recent times is Hospitaliser, but that guy does scary shit with flying spikes that defy newton's laws.

    Honestly I'm personally more afraid of attack builders supported by knights than a bit of bomb spam. Naturally as you mentioned any trap or structure is weak to bomb usage, but I believe the OP wall is cheap enough to take as a loss.

    If 5 players in the team were to switch to builder and back to their class on their next respawn = 500 wood + 150 stone. Imagine that every time on every respawn waiting for you at the tent, it just takes a bit of coordination from the team.

    Also I would bear in mind that you are equally expending the enemies resources to break your forward walls if they don't have a attack builder.
    The wall in the OP I feel can take a bomb or two in the initial rush, but as a template you can beef it up to take a bomb arrow by thickenning it from the ally side.
    In essence if someone uses a keg on it I'd say they are making a loss on their investment to destroy such a small wall.

    You are right in saying positioning is important though. Like I would not want to build this past mid for fear it would be just evaporated but usually most things are.
    Also the design definatly does favour high ground which I feel is quite common on most maps in the current cycle at mid too.

    I agree that dirt spikes are trash since that term usually refers to spamming pernament spikes on the ground you walk on which is nothing but a pain I the ass for both sides.

    Although I disagree in that I think wood spikes are superior to stone. Unlike stone which has a delay and can be easily avoided unless the enemy is ensnared, with the use of trap blocks like in Mexer's wall it becomes nearly unavoidable for anyone trying to scale it as by touching them you are damaged without delay = a larger deterrent forcing enemies to use items.

    I actually find it strange why people seem to be shy with using wood spikes. Used in the right way they are great deterrents for archers trying to ninja flags and transform small walls like this one into something unsurmountable with the base knight skill set.

    Even when wood spikes do become exposed due to damage I am left exasperated sometimes watching a ally knight or archer trying to climb a wall instead of using a door at ground level. It's like they have to intentionally jump upwards and into the darn things at the top of the wall, to then be blamed for ineffective design as it's a teamkill.
    Tldr: I call it natural selection >;D
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2017
    miniswrider and erik102003 like this.