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Mines: What are they and why are people so angry over them.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Manored, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. Manored

    Manored Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    5
    While playing the paid version of the game for the first time today, I heard a lot of yelling on chat. Some of said yelling was directed at mines and people stepping on mines. Later I got kicked from a server because someone started yelling I had stepped on a mine, although I'm not sure I actually did that. So I decided to check what mines even are and... lo and behold, there is zero information about them on the wiki.

    TBH, its pretty bad when new players get kicked due to doing things that not only are not technically against the rules or griefing, but that they don't even have any means of gaining information about. So, I'd like to ask a few questions:

    1. What are mines? How do they work? I get the're some kind of proximity-triggered explosive, but that's about it.

    2. Why are you not supposed to step on them? Isn't the whole point of mines that you put them in places where people *will* step on them? Aren't they traps? Is everyone ingame expected to have godlike observation skills and never step on mines?

    3. Why all the rage over them?
     
    PinXviiN, Contrary, bunnie and 2 others like this.
  2. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    Well, I'm not sure why you were kicked for stepping on a mine ._. But yea sometimes it's hard to avoid them considering how chaotic battles can be. If you happen to step on a mine while close to someone else who sees the mine, effectively killing both of you... Yea you can see why that is rage inducing for the more aware player, still no reason to kick you over :/. The anger about mines deals with the insane buff they recently received, before you could just shield a mine and it would just blow up and not damage you. Now they are actually really powerful and some people don't like that. Personally I feel mines are ok as is, but need only a few changes to make them more logical overall, hence rewinding back to when I talked about you stepping on a mine next to someone who saw the mine, instead of it killing both of you it should probably only kill you if the other guy was shielding, obviously touching the mine with your shield should still kill you though. Anyway sorry you had such an appalling experience on your first day :o, I'm sure if you spend more time on the game you will enjoy it quite allot :3
     
  3. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,310
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  4. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad time. Some have no tolerance for newbies in-game. But I'll try to answer your questions as well as I can.

    As you may have realized, the wiki is extremely outdated. Like, most of the stuff is still from classic. The community has put some effort into adding things, but there hasn't been much progress.

    1. Mines are team-specific explosives that can be bought from a knight shop for 60 coins. (They look like this: :mine: )

    When you drop a mine on the ground, it will arm after about a second. Once it is armed, it will explode on contact with an enemy. The explosion has a small-ish radius, but it will instantly kill any enemies in that radius.

    2. You should avoid stepping on mines of the other team, because they will not only kill you, but kill your teammates and destroy your team structures. As such, detonating one on purpose could be viewed as griefing.

    How should you avoid accidentally triggering a mine? Well, people make mistakes. Experience will allow you to analyze a battlefield more easily, but even long-time players can be caught off-guard by a well-placed mine. Still, it helps if you can recognize the common places where enemies will place mines. These include:
    • In front/inside of a doorway. It's an easy way to killing an enemy while opening up their base.
    • On top of a vertical door. It's impossible to safely pop out of a vertical door, when there's a mine on top
    • On top of/next to your flag room. Mines do a decent amount of damage to blocks, so you can chip away at a flag defense using mines
    • Inside foliage. Well, there's nothing much you can do when the mine is hidden by a bush/tree...
    Another good thing to recognize is the sound a mine makes when it arms. Here's a video I made just for you:
    If you hear that sound, you know there's a mine nearby.

    3. People usually get angry over mines because all it takes is one unobservant player to kill everyone, possibly losing the game for your team.

    Now, there are a few ways to dispose of an enemy mine safely. The easiest way is to pick it up, but you have to do this before it arms. In other words, you have to swoop in and take the mine in the 1-second window after an enemy drops it. Another way is by remote detonation, which implies shooting it with an arrow or dropping a teammate's corpse on it. You need to be careful that no allies get killed when you blow it up. A third way is to hit it with a pickaxe/sword until it breaks. This takes precision, because you need to get close enough to hit it, without actually touching it with your body.

    Now I'll try to help you understand the rage.
    Say I'm playing knight on blue team. I buy four bombs for myself and prepare to head out into the battlefield, to slay some red goons. But as I go to exit the base, I notice a red mine in front of one of our doors.

    Being the resourceful player that I am, I begin an attempt to break it. I carefully position myself and I slash the mine once, knocking it back slightly. I re-position myself and slash it again, knocking back once more. I re-position and slash, re-position and slash, again and again, slowly and cautiously.

    I do this until the mine is one hit from breaking. (It takes 12 slashes to break one.) As I charge up the final attack to destroy the mine, a teammate casually strolls up and steps on the mine without looking. BOOM! I die, losing the 100 coins worth of bombs I had.

    But it's not only that: I had invested so much time into getting rid of the mine! I could've easily jumped over the mine and let someone else deal with it. But I did it for the good of my team. And how does a member of said team repay me? By blowing us both to kingdom come.
    ...
    I'm not saying that every situation is like this, but it doesn't take much to see how mines can cause anger in this way.
    Inevitably, some people are dickheads no matter the situation. I would never votekick anyone for an honest mistake. I would recommend playing on Official CTF servers, the ones that appear gold-colored in the server browser. If an admin is on (someone with a red/orange name), you should be treated more fairly.
     
  5. Manored

    Manored Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    5
    Thanks Paralogia, that's really helpful. I had no idea mines looked like that, so I think I may have mistook one for a boulder. You too Kedran.

    It sounds like mines are kind of a rage-bait currently. I'm gonna hope in the future they will be re-balanced somehow as to prevent that kind of situation.
     
  6. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Yep, haha. That basically sums it up. I believe there's a balance tweak inbound at some point (@Verrazano or @Skinney would be able to say with more certainty), but given that's it's a contentious issue there'll probably still be some people who'll get unreasonably fired up regardless.
     
  7. HappySheep

    HappySheep Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    38
    Well, apart from what Paralogia said (which is actually a lot), you also should take into consideration that some people throw mines from towers, so mines actually arm in the air and you cannot get them when they hit the ground (and if you are below the mine, it will explode automatically). 25252525

    It's kinda depressing, but you must think about using it in your favour when playing KAG. :r_flex::rekt::flex: