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Story Misunderstanding?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PandaZero, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. PandaZero

    PandaZero Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    2
    Hello everyone, this is my very first post in this forum! :)

    I've been playing this game for 1 week now, and i really like its mechanics and strategies. These make this game a perfect mix between tactics and speed of action, giving the feeling of a solid teamplay based-game.

    I'm currently using the free version of the game, and today i was playing on a CTF map mainly as a BUILDER. What i always try to do, as i'm very unexperienced, is to follow other builders and look at what they do and try to help them, maybe just even carrying for them some extra resources, so that i can "learn by watching" let's say.

    But this day, i've been FROZEN 3 times (the first one for about 3 minutes, and the other two, in another match for about 1 and 3 minutes) as i've been accused as a "Grieefer" (I don't really know how to spell it :p) by the same Moderator (so he said he was), who was playing a knight.

    He said all the times "You are CLEARING ACTING like a GRIEFER" so that i tried to explain what i was doing:

    ---1ST TIME---
    The Enemy was pushing our main tower, resources were low, no trees and no stone mines nearby. I walked back on the furthest left (we were blues, on the left side of the map) behind out base to scrap some extra pices of doors, trap bridges and ladders which weren't actually needed in that case to climb the first side of the base. There were too many of them, so i scraped some, got about 100 wood, and than i went back to the front to place some doors. In that point i got Frozen and accused by the moderator. Other players said "why is he frozen?" as they didn't have arguments for whose i could be accused. It felt bad, for me, as i was just playing for fun and correctly. I didn't like it, but i waited still, and after 3 minutes he left me continue playing. IT was ok, i know it can happen to misunderstand someone's else actions, expecially in games like this.

    --2ND & 3RD TIME--
    In this game i wanted to push the height of out tower. So i build it like i saw in the last match, Stone->door->stone->door->stone and so on, making one high pillar of size Nx3 (3 is the width of it). Arches were happy, but than another builder told me in chat "Panda, Our knight even using their shields would damage themselves falling from such a high tower". I got the message and ran back to gather some wood from the nearby trees to make a door passage in the middle of the tower. I placed myself with a ladder on the level i decided was the best, and started to break one by one the walls and replacing them with doors Piece. After my second piece set, i got FROZEN, again, by the same moderator, with the same accuse. This time twice in a row, for a total of 4 minutes c.a. This time i was even less happy than before of being blocked like that, in the middle of an assault. I said this time "screw this moderator, i'm out" and logged out as i didn't feel comfortable playing anymore. I had my serenity and relax set away.

    With this message i'd like to hear some opinions from the community on what happened to me today.

    I Really enjoy playing the game and i fell in love for it already, but today i wasn't able to play the way i liked for this misunderstanding episode.
     
  2. Lord_bugg

    Lord_bugg Smashing Donator

    Messages:
    241
    It is unfortunate that you had this experience and it does happen quite often.

    The thing is, PandaZero, that the KAG community is very suspicious of griefers. In the second scenario what you were doing is a textbook grief (im not saying you were trying to grief the tower) many griefers try to collapse towers by doing just that and then saying "i was just putting doors in" therefore many admins and moderators dont take that as an excuse. Also the fact that he had previously frozen you for what he thought was griefing didnt help either.

    New players often think that the best class to be to start with is a builder because they dont have the skills to play as a knight or archer, however a teams structures are critical to success and a badly made tower can cost a team the match. Therefore it is sometimes better to play as knight or archer untill you know what is a good tower and what is not.

    I hope your experience doesnt put you off KAG.

    For a few tips about the knight class go here:
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/469-cheeses-knight-guide.7121/

    For a few tips about the archer class go here:
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/203-big-archer-guide.2280/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/archer-tips-n-tricks.4747/

    For a few tips about the builder class go here:
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/265-the-way-of-the-builder-a-general-guide.3136/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/394-guros-guide-to-offensive-building-and-traps.6683/
    https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/360-the-low-down-on-tunnels.3932/

    I hope these guides and my post help you.
     
  3. Oximus

    Oximus Arsonist

    Messages:
    139
    I'm a mod in the action server. Thing is what you were doing is normally related to griefing, maybe 10% of the times is to help the team the other 90 is to grief and break shit.

    You are a new player so nobody knows you and how trustworthy you are. ANY mod that sees this and suspects will freeze you just as security measure until he either decides you were griefing or helping, leaving while frozen makes you look like a griefer 100% of the times.

    What im saying is you get frustrated by being frozen a few minutes but think about the other 10-15 players in your team and how frustrated they would get if their defenses get griefed. My advice is if you are doing something suspicious say something so you have some prof in your favor.

    And don't blame the mods its their "job", like i said 90% of the times is griefing the other 10% is a misunderstanding that CAN be solved by speaking.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and PandaZero like this.
  4. Andr01d

    Andr01d Bison Rider

    Messages:
    87
    to add to what oximus said, usually these sorts of things go in the thread of the server where it took place--you can find those threads in the "server" section of the forums.
    another suggestion: try playing knight or archer for a while. it sounds like your intentions are good, but even a well intentioned new builder can wreak havoc. plus if you play builder all the time, you'll never realize what actually constitutes a good building from a knight or archer's point of view. just play the other classes for a while, and then when you play builder, think "if i was a knight, what would i want me to build?"
    protip: the answer is usually team ladders up the enemies walls.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and PandaZero like this.
  5. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    3,620
    Sucks that you got caught up like this, but yeah this is something griefers usually do, you did everything right as far as learning goes and following up on it, everything, unfortunately however there is this gap where fixing things can often times look like you are griefing, and basically until you are 'known' by a few people you will probably be frozen for doing such things. Could probably use a relook at how we handle things, but the banning system and simply the way the game plays out right now, especially since no ACCURATE logs can be/are made of the game such as collapses and changed blocks, we can't really go back in time, so you have to prevent something, especially because a collapse causes unknown damage to the surrounding area. You can't call for a time out or anything, so you literally have to freeze someone before it happens.

    If you have any suggestions as they can always be taken for a better system that can be implemented, just post 'em.
     
    PandaZero and Razi like this.
  6. Chaos-Knight

    Chaos-Knight Bison Rider

    Messages:
    100
    People who are low on the scoreboard (tab button) are usually very suspicious too, if they look like they grief. And if you are a defensive builder the whole game you'll have close to zero kills and maybe a few deaths, which is what griefers also tend to have because they quickly jump into the game and destroy some shit before leaving.

    Even though the scoreboard gets buggy a lot and shows crazy numbers you can often still get a gerneral idea of who's a good player if you look at the scoreboard and if you see someone is in the middle or high up. So it's rather unlikely that someone who played well the whole time suddenly turns on his own team and starts destroying shit, it practically never happens. Having a premium account helps too, because if someone payed for the game he's more unlikely to grief considering he payed money for his account and could be permabanned on a server if he starts behaving badly.


    If you just started playing you'll get pwned a lot, so if this frustrates you maybe you should start playing archer. I think it's the easiest class to start playing with (although it can be hard to master). If you got a big monitor and a good mouse it's really fun to play as an archer, especially in the beginning since as a knight you'll get owned badly at first, simply because you don't know all the tiny quirks, timings and "exploits" involved in close combat and things like perfect bombjumping.

    If you start playing knight at some point the "Solo" deathmatch against bots is actually nice to get into the swing of things, just keep in mind that normal players don't behave anything like that, however when I started playing over a year ago, it gave me an idea and the basic feel of how to move and time your slashes to break shield blocks.

    Builder is I think the hardest class to master, and being an offensive builder can be the hardest because you have to be real fast with selecting the stuff you want to build in order to quickly block their doors with stone and whatnot. But if you really like being a builder, just keep at it. In the classes section of this forum there are a lot of great tips for builders that will greatly improve your game if you just keep reading a bit.
     
  7. lavalord

    lavalord Haxor Staff Alumni Donator Tester

    Messages:
    672
    Neither of those attempts were greifing at all.

    I never check the score board and the fact that in glitches every 2 minutes is a good reason not too.

    My advice PandaZero:
    Play as archer of knight for your first two weeks, watch and learn how builders think.
    When frozen, Admins will normally ask for a explanation so if you get in trouble again convey your idea for the tower or what you have done and why. Also tell them that you are inexperience and this is you first week of the game
    If the admin still thinks you are a greifer he obviously has too many prejudices against new builders in which case find a more noob friendly server (and I will have to plug my own "Australian CTF Server :rollseyes: )
     
  8. Brandon816

    Brandon816 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    262
    In regards to the second case posted, cutting through your tower to put down a door passage way: if you really don't want to be frozen for griefing, first you should build backwall support for the tower first to the side you are on (enough so that even if you cut through the whole wall without making doors, it wouldn't fall). That way, an admin has more leeway on when they have to freeze you, and can wait a bit until you actually finish the job and put down doors.

    The first case is griefing though, even if unintentional, unless there were no trees at all to get wood from. If the enemies did break through, they would then be at a base that was missing some parts, and make it harder to push back.
     
    PandaZero likes this.
  9. VanHuek

    VanHuek KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    751
    Hi, I'm a Global Moderator from the game, in the event you are frozen remember that freezing and banning are separate and it is a security measure so just make sure you look out for the admin's questions and answer in clear English without any 'hate' as that can aggravate admins dearly and put you in the mould of a textbook griefer. Any chance you know the admin's name? Also going on a smaller server often helps when buildings are scaled down and maybe go as a knight for the first few days?
     
    Happiness, PandaZero and HERaLD like this.
  10. funnymonkey

    funnymonkey Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    102
    Unlucky, that is quite a harsh start to kag and the admins also seem quite harsh and non of those incidents wrere actually greifing but next time just make what your doing really is worth doing. And if they freeze you again just explain exactly what happened. And as a beginner I wouldn' t try to mess with the admins.
     
    PandaZero likes this.
  11. Panasonic

    Panasonic Builder Stabber
    1. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    133
    I don't fried but my score can be that when I decide to go builde for the game it does get anyoing if the whole game u build something then someone griefs it its the worst thing ever I'm admin on 1 server which there's no griefing it's rtdm but u jus stand thre watching ur building collapse wish there was some way you could stop it ;(
     
    PandaZero likes this.
  12. Demon_Jester

    Demon_Jester Haxor

    Messages:
    131
    shit happens.
     
    PandaZero and Canadian98 like this.
  13. PandaZero

    PandaZero Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    2
    Good Morning guys, Thanks to everyone of you for the answres, i found them very interesting and explanatory.

    I agree with many of you saying i should be playing a military class instead of a builder. I Read the guides posterd by @Lord_Bugg@ with the will of trying some of those combos and advices. (I should really learn how to bomb as knight :)).

    Following the other's message i understood what moderators do, and why a player's attitude would result suspicius if some specific actions are made. Then i apologize if i've been rude with the moderator who was only doing his work, and i promise i will explain my actions, wherever they may resamble strange, in the chat to everyone.

    @BlueLuigi@ I agree with you when you say the in-game control system isn't 100% accurate, but anyway i think it still helps a lot preventing bad people from damaging the match. I don't have any suggestions at the moment, but as soon as i'll have a brainwave i'll contact you :).

    @VanHuek@ i don't remember his name. I will surely follow your advice, and also communicate more and better with the team. I know i lack of team communication, so why i'll change this aspect of my game-style to have a better integration in the team.



    Thanks to you all guys who answered, i really appreciate it.
    Now it's time for some KAG ;)
     
  14. Chaos-Knight

    Chaos-Knight Bison Rider

    Messages:
    100
    Sometimes (though rarely) the admins can be a bit f****ed in the head, too.

    I remember someone once froze me when I tried to collapse a huge tower-overhang on top of the enemy below with knights and builders trying to ladder up and whatnot. This was obviously during the end-game stage when we were out of credits with maybe 5 people left alive and the enemy had like 10+ credits left and was getting up the tower with nearly all of their players.

    But that was the only time I can remember being frozen for unjustified and frankly stupid reasons. I was also sometimes frozen because I often tend to swear terribly over chat but that only happened on one server where the admin had a s**** up his ***.
     
  15. AnRK

    AnRK Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    641
    Yeah some admins are total douchebags and/or are completely braindead, you mentioning stuff like recycling pointless doors and bridges from where they're entirely fucking useless and bits like that means your clearly above the average pub moron already - That particular point about stealing doors from they're there not needed for example, it's a very good source of wood, unfortunately people will take that kinda thing as grieving even though your not knocking any towers down or stopping your team getting to the front and are building elsewhere, alot of people get very protective over their useless pieces of shit they call building in this game, and view their bad building as some sort of sacred art that can't be modified, despite this been a team game. Make sure you use plenty of backwall when recycling/modifying awful buildings like people have said though, it can be easy to collapse something you didn't mean to when trying to make some crappy tower better/get a few hundred wood from a pointless door corridor, and that doesn't exactly help when you already look like a griever to the average fuckwit.

    If your really insistent on being a builder to start with, be an offensive one, do simple things like laddering/team bridging over towers and other obstacles, blocking enemy doors with stone, and converting enemy towers to your own. It'll give you a good idea of what makes a good defence, but from the perspective of having to attack them rather then build or defend them. Personally I think that's the best way to see what works in defence building, been totally fucked over by a well constructed and defended/maintained tower when trying to attack. In a normal pub game it's rare you see good building or coordinated team play, but I still think it's a better way of learning good building, plus I think offensive building is way more fun anyway. Just try to think about some basic points like ;

    • When it's better to go through a tower by building a stone ceiling and smashing through it, or simply ladder over it
    • When it's better to cave a door in or to just block it with stone so the enmy can't use it themselves
    • When to destroy a shop or tower, or when it's better to keep it in one piece and use it to your advantage (usually better to not collapse and break stuff for the sake of it, but most player just love to see stuff collapse) and most importantly
    • When it's best to press to the next tower/obstacle, or whether it's best to stay where you are if you don't have many supporting knights and archers, and just reverse engineer the current tower you're up to.
    that decision making is what really makes an offensive builder, and other then been able to help out using your hammer to assist your team killing enemies - which is a very good weapon when you get some practise - then there isn't that much skill to good offensive building, just alot of good decision making. So if you can practise that role then you will have the basics of KAG down very quickly, that's my advice anyway. Plus there's usually a massive shortage of offensive builders in most servers, and they're the most important thing a team needs otherwise you literally get nowhere, unless they other teams buildings are so bad you can just bombjump your way to a flag.
     
  16. Chaos-Knight

    Chaos-Knight Bison Rider

    Messages:
    100
    True story:

    Yesterday I played on a pub server and in the building phase I started building an overhang on top of a tower (kinda like that one: https://forum.kag2d.com/threads/590-last-stand-tower.10642/). The tower was already built and it was the frontmost tower, so I start building the overhang to stop bumbjumpers and give archers some protection, when someone suddenly starts to destroy the backwall of my overhang. I'm like "wtf stop griefing or ban" and he says "my tower!". Allright fuck you too but whatever, maybe he really wants to try out some specific shit on top of that tower, be my guest.

    So after quite a while I respawn and pass that tower again, but he's nowhere to be seen and has't built anything on top of the tower either. So I'm like - okay time to build that overhang after all. I start building and up comes that dimwit again, collapsing the overhang while I'm on top of it - killing me in the process while saying: "my tower".

    Jeez, fuck that guy. So I go knight and all is well - much later when our outpost is destroyed and I pass that tower again after respawning at the tent, he's still fucking minecrafting some unnecessary shit back there and by now the (still not so tall tower) is a complete piece of shit and he still didn't even build anything on top of it where my overhang would have been.

    I swear, some people breathe and talk through their *ss.
     
  17. restbench

    restbench Alpha Recruiter Donator

    Messages:
    32
    well thats unfourtunate.

    you gotta know that the admins/mods have alot on there plate and deal with greifers everyday and know what there doing

    the only thing i can say to you is keep doing what your doing and keep learning and if you get frozen by a mod just talk your way out and dont scream and shout at them as you will just get banned

    and i agree with Chaos -Knight dont take anyshit from anyplayer that is rude to you. Its probably a 10 year old kid so just deal with it.

    also people tend to get very anal* about there structures so be careful what yeah build on and if they question you explain what your doing and how it will help the team

    restbench
     
    PandaZero likes this.