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More on Player Retention and the Need for Achievements/Long-term Goals

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tern, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. Tern

    Tern Quickfish Donator Official Server Admin
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    175
    [​IMG]


    This really bothers me. I have one hundred and eight friends who have KAG, and not one is in-game. This was taken around 5:40 PM EST, not at some unusual hour in the night. I see this sad sight surprisingly often. There's no incentive for lots of these people to fire up the game and play as much as they might have in the past. Do most of these people still play? Sure, but for many of them it's more of an occasional thing with friends than before, when they played all the time. People get bored and move on, and that's okay, but it's more of a problem than it should be with KAG.

    People need something more tangible than skill gained or just fun matches with friends in order to stick around, play often, and tell more friends about the game. If someone were to choose between two games which interested them roughly equally, and if one had achievements and the other didn't, this person would probably choose the one which rewarded them more and gave them more of a sense of progress--the one with achievements. Achievements are one of the things I feel this game still really lacks. Achievements keep new players around long enough to get hooked and keep playing solely for enjoyment. Achievements also give the oldfags another reason to fire up KAG over another game.

    One especially effective form of achievements that I've seen is one that ties in achievements with unlockable cosmetics. Everyone loves the ability to customize their character, and being able to unlock new options for customization makes the reward for playing even more tangible. I know it feels like I'm beating a dead horse here, but achievements still haven't been implemented (or even seriously worked on yet, as far as I know), and there are still some people against them. How can someone be against extra content?! If you don't like achievements and unlockables, don't spend your time trying to earn them. The only reasonable objection I can see is that players might play focused on achievements instead of winning the game (e.g. wasting a whole match killing sharks instead of helping their team, or killing themselves with bombs twenty times in one match for a new head). Assuming the achievements are written well, i.e. to reward players for just doing things normally done in a game instead of for doing the ridiculous aforementioned tasks, there should be no problems or interruptions for the rest of the players just trying to play the game. For the players that want achievements, they're there, and they'll serve as a tool to suck in new players and to keep oldfags around.

    What do you think?
     
  2. ieatpieandlikepie

    ieatpieandlikepie Drill Rusher

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    146
    I don't know thats a lot of work for geti i think he would disagree
     
  3. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I honestly think that the Devs habe had enough of dealing with this game and want to move on to other things. Its really buggy and hard to learn with some features that don't feel as rewarding as they should be. The people that stick around are the people that want to get better. That's the only reason I still play. I love killing other good players or collapsing someone else's hard work. If new players realized their potential, only then would you start seeing the community grow
     
  4. dayleaf

    dayleaf Haxor
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    You sort of explained the BF4 formula but change the achievement for new weapons and gear, having a fun match is important, but unlocking and getting things incentive you to play more and more.

    I agree with this, still i dont have KAG via Steam.
     
  5. Tern

    Tern Quickfish Donator Official Server Admin
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)

    Messages:
    175
    That's the problem; there aren't enough people that stay just for the sake of getting better.

    Steam achievements would be nice, but it would be better to have the achievement system entirely whole and functional without Steam integration. Implementing achievements without integrating them into Steam would be fine.
     
    dayleaf likes this.
  6. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    Isnt this the second thread on player retention? Personally for me its the shit bugs: in combat someone attaches to your momentum and just jabs you to death, drilling and doing dmg thru your teams doors, and when 2 doors get placed on the same block
     
    Tern likes this.
  7. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

    Messages:
    793
    I'm forced to agree. The reason other competitive multiplayer games like TF2 are so popular is the ability of the player to feel like they're making progress toward goals and being rewarded for their achievements even as they basically do the same things over and over again.

    I'm inclined to believe that the reason KAG's popularity is suffering is because of the lack of that, because I find myself turning to other games as opposed to KAG. It's fun to play, it's just... it doesn't fulfill that primal desire to acquire more things.

    That said, the devs aren't obligated to provide something like this. They've released a finished game already, and it's a ton of work to even think of implementing a reward system. It would be pretty cool to see it happen, though.
     
  8. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Haxor Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    Honestly they'd be better off taking a break from kag and then coming back making a more advanced remake
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  9. NinjaCell

    NinjaCell Haxor

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    358
    King Arthur's Gold Gamma?
     
    Darknighte9 likes this.
  10. thebonesauce

    thebonesauce All life begins and ends with Nu Staff Alumni
    1. MOLEing Over Large Estates - [MOLE]
    2. The Ivory Tower of Grammar-Nazis

    Messages:
    2,554
    I get so sick of the whole achievements argument and, "gameplay related incentives," as if different colored clothing and weapons means anything in a game like this.

    I dunno, I don't play anymore but it's not because I can't get Gamerscore for unlocking rad achievements.
     
    Chrispin likes this.
  11. NinjaCell

    NinjaCell Haxor

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    358
    I'd rather they made the game actually better (even if it is just balancing/fixing stuff) rather than just adding fluff to keep more players.
    I want more people to play KAG too, but I want them to play it because you can build castles and destroy them and ride bison/sharks, fly with chickens. Like play it because it is fun. Not because "I really want that achievement". Either way it's just what we want, it isn't going to change the fact that achievements being (not) added is the developers' choice.

    More players isn't just a universal thing we all want. It may seem obvious to you that that's the way to go, but that's not everyone's idea for what the game should be. Maybe THD wants to make a good game in they way they want, instead of just making a load of money.
     
    SirDangalang, Blue_Tiger and Fuzzle like this.
  12. dayleaf

    dayleaf Haxor
    1. The Thieves Guild

    Messages:
    255
    *After achieving or finishing something succesfully your brain releases Dopamine, which gives you joy and makes you want to do X task, like getting a new Y thing over and over again* <--- basic explanation
     
    CowboyDan likes this.
  13. CowboyDan

    CowboyDan Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator Tester

    Messages:
    146
    I think an idea of levels and unlocking emotes and heads could be perfect for a modded us ctf server. Since there arent really any us ctf servers anymore this would have most of the normal maps and the only modded part would be the levels and heads/emotes you unlock from leveling. Leveling up could be based solely off of wins. If it was well done, the server could easily become the most popular ctf server so the levels would actually be important to people. Just an idea. I have 0 programming knowledge
     
  14. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,580
    If they grant no bonus, why not. Easy to code.

    Easy to code.

    Why obviously "US"?
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  15. CowboyDan

    CowboyDan Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator Tester

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    146
    There are not really any us east ctf servers anymore. Could easily be anywhere though.
     
  16. NinjaCell

    NinjaCell Haxor

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    prepare_yourselfscrabo-tower5.jpg
     
  17. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

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    Achievements seem pointless, but I like customisation.
     
  18. Psiklaw

    Psiklaw Bison Rider

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    It's a fucking little indie game and we've played over 1000 hours (and i didnt even play for a year). There's a really little and independent team of developers and I agree that this game is really cool and it deserves to be better, but hoping the devs just get convinced to do so is really foolish.

    If there is a consense in the community that kag needs improvements to become the ultimate rekin experience, then I make ONE simple proposal to the devs: do a kickstarter or some alternative and that way both players and devs compromise to do something at the same time we give them the ability to invest serious time in it. Anyways its the decision of the devs, they already made this game a thing and its perfectly cool and positive that they move to other projects :^)

    I can't believe it but i'm not shitposting right now
     
    Anonymuse likes this.
  19. Leo

    Leo Haxor

    Messages:
    503
    I agree, popularity of the game is going down and achievements would help, a lot. Btw I have fired up some new BD servers in NYC which are copies of the EU ones.
     
    Lee_Shioon, Darknighte9 and Tern like this.
  20. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

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    439
    :up::up::up::up:
     
    Trumbles likes this.