Nerf or remove spike dropping.

I got no problem with it.
It's not even hard to counter, just put up 2 wooden platform above your head and you're good to go.

On a more general level , why shouldn't builders be offensive?
Most builders having a too defensive mindset is imo a problem we've had a long time which leads to many of the boring ass turtling stalemates I've had recently.

 

This is a solution as a builder,

Knights are going to be held here, and builders can be offensive but not as a killing machine that on hits anything
They can build offensively and break things but they shouldn't be able to kill someone so easily

 

yes and when knights are being retarded tanks and want to camp at a tower they get a nice spike on their head

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 19, 2014, Original Post Date: Sep 19, 2014 ---

easy? dropping something on a head of a knight coming at you spamming jabs, bombs, ect

 

There's always a counter to all of these supposed "unbalances", withholding boulders. Spikes --> dodge, shield climb --> overhang. Really, it's not that complicated.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 19, 2014, Original Post Date: Sep 19, 2014 ---

This is a much more needed balance than spikes, however much I enjoy using it.

 

Just make knights able to avoid getting killed by them by using their shield.

 

I think they'd be almost completely nerfed at that point, but it does make logical sense. I'd like it if some kind of boiling oil type weapon was added that would kill anyone near the front of a tower, that'd be right medieval.

 

I'm curious, why do spikes insta-kill when they are dropped on you head? If you bumble into a spike on a surface it's half a heart if I'm not mistaken. Why not the same thing for spikes dropped on people's heads? Could it not be like having a single block kind of damage being dropped on your head?
(Not a insta-kill but it hurts lol.)

From this reasoning insta-killing spike drops seem to me a feature in the game that was intentionally designed rather than a product of accidental KAG physics/voodoo. To put that into perspective for me I'm now viewing insta-kill spike drops on the same level as arrow ladders or shield air gliding to be integral to the game. Personally that doesn't sit right with me in terms of balanced play as people have suggested haha.

This seems like a cool solution too since it sounds like it satisfied the argument on both ends. Knights have a way to protect themselves but a builder could catch a knight off guard who isn't shielding. Meaning they have to pay attention to surroundings, feel the spikes coming in the air tonight oh lord etc etc.

I don't mind spike drops staying in the game because the concept is really cool for builders in setting up beast defences. But an insta-kill from like a 1-5 block above the guy drop sounds quite BS when that is the primary and now only function of a boulder right?

 

It's not the matter of countering it's the matter that a builder should not have such weapons at his/her disposal, they can hold the line on their own if they really tried

 

I've never had any problem with being too "weak" as a builder or having "bad offense" for years, because stomp-pickaxing works just fine, and the builder isn't supposed to be an offensive class. We already have two offensive classes, we don't need the third to also be that niche, because that that point KAG is a completely different game than it used to be.

1 heart spike drop damage, sure. It's still a waste of stone and still encourages camping but it's not so bad.
Stationary instant kill spike trap like the hovering spikes, sure. And we've been able to do this, albeit in a glitchy fashion, for a long time now.
Spikes that can be dropped but only occasionally and bug out so they're ureliable, ie; before the most recent spike drop buff build? Sure. At least then it's not a reliable instant kill attack.
Spikes that can be blocked by a shield? Maybe. The fact a builder has a surprise instant kill attack at all is terrible and if it were a knight/archer people would be up in arms, but at least this would make spike drops dodgeable. On the other hand, what's more likely to happen is lag will occur and your shield won't do shit, just like how the archer knife was removed because it was pure ping-based bullshit.

 

Do you remember playing builder in classic? In my view the final classic build had a pretty great class balance. And if you remember, builders could go toe to toe with just about anything on the battlefield if played by a good player. This made for awesome matches because good builders would be out at the front, jumping, dodging and pickaxing their way through almost anything except a bomb.

Now, in the current build survivability on the field is way way down. The reasons for this are a combination of slash range from knights, stronger charged shots from archers, and the options for increased to speed and maneuverability for both. I neither expect nor particularly desire any of these things to be reverted to how they were, but the end result is that builders have been at an all time low in terms of their vulnerability. Some of you may think this is a good thing but I would point to classic and say that there was no more downside to having awesome charging builders in a match than there was to having awesome knights.

Spike drops don't revert things back to classic of course, but they do offer a new alternative to help give builders some teeth again. This is A Good Thing because without teeth, a heck of a lot of builders feel compelled to just stay in their towers/bases and there are very often matches which stagnate due to a lack of offensive buildering on either side. You've all been in these matches and know what I mean.

In good matches, experienced players and forum users tend to be happy enough to repeatedly charge to their death as a builder and spam blocks on an enemy tower before being killed, and do this over and over again. I myself am one. But the more survivability a builder has, the less need there is to resort to the "charge, spam blocks, die, rinse, repeat" method which is currently the most effective way to help advance as a builder. I agree with the basic point that spike kills don't feel right and I would welcome adjustments to it, but outright removal because you don't think a builder should be able to kill you is not a good enough reason.

 

Why would you think of a whole class as "defensive" or "offensive" in the first place?
Every class can and should be played either way according to the player and the tools used.
The only "niches" you could apply would be "Melee combat" for Knight, "Range combat" for Archer and "Constructions" for Builder.

 

Right so you're saying spike dropping, which can only be performed at backwall (Read: Your own tower, backwall hastily tossed up around the field, or natural backwall) doesn't encourage camping? Because it does, which defeats your point.

Where the hell was this ever stated? Good builders can kill already and they could long before spike dropping was a thing. My issues is "point-click-to-kill". Instant shield-piercing instakill attacks shouldn't be in the game, and yes I count boulders as well, thought I don't count saws because those are extremely niche.

 

Its not just point and click. There is alot of other factors into this "easy killing" of yours.

 

There is plenty of dirt backwall around most maps, and you even identified earlier in the thread yourself that lots of us think ahead and place extra backwall around the map in case we need an emergency spike drop. I do this while advancing, I know others do too.

Hasty edit: to clarify, the way in which spike drops help offense is that a builder who has moved up to the front line/got inside an enemy tower and sees a knight suddenly coming right at them is no longer an instant corpse if they have the thought, reactions, and timing to get a spike placed asap. It takes a good 5-6 blocks (and too much time) to seal yourself away from danger and in a high paced frontline environment this often isn't enough.

Right here:

If you meant something else by that, then feel free to rephrase.

 

A builder is supposed to build right?
A knight is supposed to fight

So now basically a builder can fight just as well as a knight and build. Builders are facing knights head on and the sad thing is they are winning many of those times

It's supposed to be hard to fight as a builder, you guys are basically just saying that they should be able to fight and kill knights easily.

Knights are fighters and right now Builders can fight fairly well and win 8/10 times if the knight doesn't have a bomb which isn't how it should be unless the knight is completely fooled or the builder has a really good strategy

Any builder can simply drop a spike and kill someone, they can build offensively they aren't supposed to be killers. They are called Builders!

 

Yeah because they can't just setup a 4 block high wall before hand

 

Then just back up or juke him. If you keep dieing by a builder the same way... I think you deserve it.

 

It's funny how you are targeting this just on me..

Every time players come to this game, really unfair stuff like this ruins it

Your are only pointing out a simple answer, why don't you address a question like Why should a builder hold the power to do more damage than a knight and build things

Because I don't think personally insulting me is the answer