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Nerf Platforms

Discussion in 'Balance' started by bunnie, Sep 1, 2017.

?

Thoughts?

  1. Needs to be nerfed

    35.5%
  2. Should stay like it is now

    45.2%
  3. Unsure

    19.4%
  1. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    Pretty sure anyone with a brain would know it is harder to pickaxe a platform than a stone door. If we're speaking logically here and acknowledge that price is a factor for use(stone doors are slash proof and allow travel for team) players would assume stone doors are more valuable (they are for their purpose), but if a main argument is the assumption of a player we should acknowledge what newbies see(a pickaxe spamming helplesses at wood probably dulling their blade:wink:)

    Sidenote: just like block prices/uses fuzzle's stance on polls are inconsistent

     
  2. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    296
    I don't see how a buffed door couldn't be used to counter rats.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  3. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    Do you not remember the invincible door tunnels with needa a hella number of hits to take down. If anything a buffed door would help rats.
     
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  4. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    296
    Context? We don't need maps that 55% dislike if there are lots of maps that, say, 10% dislike. Here it's either-or. Also, there isn't an issue w/ counterintuition. Newcomers probably wouldn't vote differently.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  5. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,278
    Platforms actually are such a good block - so hard to destroy, inflammable with stone background, and so easy to put - that they're 3x more a defensive block rather than an attacking block; they actually STOP pushing teams rather than help them! In tunnels, on towers, everywhere.

    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM

    "Lets not make the center of every map an eternal knight meat grinder by nerfing important blocks that helps teams push forward when used correctly."

    Tunnels filled with platforms and big towers that are impossible to get over + 3 layers of stone/platform wall are what actually makes the center of every map an eternal knight meat grinder.

    Also, re - burning: read asumagic's post
    And, of course, don't forget wooden platforms with stone background behind them won't make them burn..

    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM

    Why do the blocks need to be balanced relative to each other?

    Alright, we have good guy wooden block here, he's perfectly balanced:
    takes 10 wood, is a solid block, can be burned, takes 5 hits.

    NOW WE HAVE THIS LITTLE MOTHERFUCKER, WOODEN PLATFORM:
    takes 5 wood more than wooden block, if you put stone background over it IT CAN'T BE FUCKING BURNED, is basically a one way door (useful as fuck for pushing knights who will probably die on battlefield anyway), takes... 9 HITS????
    how is that normal??????

    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM!!!

    Yes I'm saying ratting should be easier because now what it takes to stop 10 min of ratting is 200-300 wood in one fucking passage with bedrock around. Feel ratting is too easy? go complain to the mapmakers, it's a viable way to win.

    I agree that platforms are an integral part of buildings.
    ... but in fucking buildings, they're basically a WOODEN BLOCK for the team attacking a tower, but in most cases can't be burned, because it has stone background, and lets enemies pass through it. Oh also and they take over 2x more hits to get destroyed, but cost only 5 wood more. Yeah, definitely balanced.

    "Why not nerf stone blocks, knights can't break it easily enough!!!"
    So funny. You're missing the entire point...

    I think fixing these two will actually be a pretty shit nerf. I don't think the nerf needs to be complicated, just make platforms cost more, take less hits to destroy and it'll be alright.






    reminder for the end:
    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM
    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM
    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM
    IF YOU MAKE PLATFORMS COST A BIT MORE AND REDUCE HOW MUCH HITS YOU NEED TO FUCKING BUILD ONE THEN IT WILL BE OKAY, I'M NOT ASKING TO REMOVE PLATFORMS IN ANY FORM
     
    kodysch likes this.
  6. The_Osz

    The_Osz Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    19
    Thought we could have a nice, informative discussion about the current state of platforms, guess I was wrong
     
    blackjoker77777 likes this.
  7. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    775
    I kind of like the bomb resistant properties though, I think it's a cool mechanic. I don't want to see that go.

    Maybe it isn't "normal", but so what? I still use wooden blocks, and I'd like to think it's not just because I'm a dumbass who should have been using a platforms They have their uses, and so long as a block is not completely redundant, I don't see the problem.

    If you wanna change the cost, that's fine, it might make some sense to do that. 15 is kinda cheap. But honestly I don't worry too much about wood economy because builders usually have as much wood as they want.

    And anyway, the thing about their increased durability is probably because knights can slash an entire line of platforms at once, even multiple layers. They can only hit one wood block at a time. That's why I think it's okay that builders can't break them as easily.
     
    SirDangalang and Osmal like this.
  8. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    IMO, just make it so you can burn it through stone backwall - it will make fire arrows more useful and not really remove any of the cool uses.
     
    SirDangalang and Potatobird like this.
  9. Vermilicious

    Vermilicious Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    232
    You have a point, but I don't think it fully justifies the current situation.

    A big part of a match in KAG is resource management, even if many seem to forget about it. It is simply not right that a platform be significantly differently priced compared to function and durability. It makes the other options less viable. I'm all for creativity and different uses, but platforms are just too good to skip, as is. Nothing should be like that. It's not like anyone's proposing the removal of platforms.

    Secondly, there's the aspect of the player seeing the expected result. The platform is visually made of wood, and of a thin construction, unlike a block of solid stone. It's not intuitive that the platform is "stronger" than the stone. It just doesn't ring well. If the game used a lot of abstract concepts and style, this wouldn't be a problem, but it's more in a realistic direction.

    Does it ruin the game? Certainly not. It's been like this for years, and it hasn't been a problem. Still, it's relevant, even if platform "abuse" is just a phase the community is going through right now.
     
    kodysch, SirDangalang, bunnie and 2 others like this.
  10. kodysch

    kodysch Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

    Messages:
    454
    Why don't we just increase the cost of platforms in the next update and see how it goes, if it seems shit change it back.