New build discussion

If anyone bother to re-read my post and trying to understand what Im trying to pin-point is not only exactly just class balance, but the whole game point.

So what Im saying is... usually the game ends up everyone gave up on buildings and literally choose knight and just jumping around trying to kill somebody or something, for what its worth most of these pile of meat have really less intelligence... *cough* note that I said most.

I was attracted by KAG early in beginning because how much seamless teamwork and collective minds it needs to successfully winning a round for example, how workers needed to build defences, ladders, archer support, knight shield, etc

but currently whenever I play a round I feel like just a lil boy among the other randomly killing each other without what I just said above... pile of meat with really less intelligence...

now providing knight already have deadly bombs and now with lazer beam fast jabs literally on 1-1 versus archer its not much. But try to imagine 10 knights versus 1 archer.. now that's a BIG difference.

I hope you understand what Im trying to point out here. Thanks.

 

Yeah maybe I havent just played enough with decent team, maybe its too early to decide what's wrong with current build, however I still think the jabs upgrade is overpowered.

Back in early builds knight even tho they have 3 hearts, but their swing is practically a bit slow (about 1 swing per second), but because of this jab upgrade, regardless 1 jab 1 heart damage, but being able to swing it endlessly about 2 jabs per second (I think about that much) pretty much overpowered imo...

 

in a scenario where everyone you're playing with happen to just love jumping and jabbing ._.

 

You see? that's what Im pointing out, so you've figured most of times to deal with knight, you will need knight too. This cycle repeat and overtime everyone is playing as knight and just jumping around jabbing something.

Eventually where a choke-point reached where you just need few builders to ladder up and outpost, few archer to support, and over 9000 knight jumping around jabbing stuff on their path.

This forced the other team does the same build (more knight less other) and literally and eventually the round dumbed down to non-strategic non-co-op gameplay...

Anyways that's how most of the game on early builds as well but at least knight aren't as deadliest as of it is now, because of the jabs speed. That's why I think the jab upgrade is overpowered, literally, not to the other classes, but overpowered to the gameplay.

However of course this is only my opinion... if you guys like how the game it is now, who am I to say otherwise ?(‘~`;)?

So yeah back to the whole point; I think jab upgrade is overpowered. It needs to be slowed down eg; 1 jab / sec.

Thanks.

 

I can't connect to the master server.. Didn't expect a ban still yet :(




EDIT

 

Could you show the archers charge bar over the cursor instead of over the archer (or over both)? That would help in long-range archery with the charge bar now depleting.

And why not give the archer a weak knife as suggested here before? Leave long-range archery as it is (with my change outlined above) and balance him for close combat to use a knife instead of spammy low velocity arrows.

 

I've seen a lot of people discussing how Knights are more spammy now.

I don't know how you can say that.

It doesn't require a whole lot of skill to jump into battle and click like a madman, but the new combat system is certainly better (and more exciting) than the old one, in which people jumped around whilst holding down the mouse and hoping that the enemy dies before they do.

I've found that, with practice, you can really learn how to use the Knight well.
I've had several occasions in which I slayed my foes by using good timing - not spammy stabbing.


And people are complaining about the Archer, too?

It used to be that the Archers simply sat on tower walls shooting at each other while trying to avoid arrows flying in their direction. They were practically useless against Knights, as the Knights could simply hold up shields and block every single arrow. If a Knight cornered an Archer in the old build, the Archer had a chance of getting away, too.... which is stupid.

Now, the archers CAN take down knights through the power of numbers, and will succumb to close-range encounters. They're less nuisance and more strategic.

As for the arrow timer... that's an improvement.

You used to be able to sit on a wall holding up your drawn bow - a threat to any other archer who dared show their faces from cover. Now, you can't. You have to let go to fire effectively. This allows other archers to get a chance to shoot back. And that's perfectly fair!

Really, I don't know what you guys are complaining about. This build was obviously well thought out, and it's certainly addressed some major issues with combat in the old builds.

 

I like the new archer too, it requires more skill.

The only thing that bothered me is that I often had to hit a knight 4 times to kill him, even though I was firing with a red bar, or very close to full.

 

I think the source of people's issues with the jabbing isn't how fast it is, its the fact that it stuns you for a fairly long period of time. I think it's probably not imbalanced per se but I'm not really finding any of the stun in this game very fun. It's like you're just walking along and suddenly you are frozen for two seconds. Losing control of one's character is one of the most frustrating things in games. I understand the knight probably needs it up close, though I think with his greatly increased range it would be worth trying to do without. I think he needs new jabbing frames as not only do they lack the visual power of the old slashing, the hitbox is disjointed and extends far beyond the sprite of the sword.

Again I think the knight messes are due to the fact that knights respawn quickly and are very resilient. Another factor is that the presence of knights always generates surprisingly large holes in the ground in a surprisingly short amount of time. Maybe bombs could be like catapults and only damage built stuff? It's kind of unintuitive but could be a solution to the massive craters we get in games. It would make workers more valuable and also archers more powerful.

Actually that reminds me of something else. Playing on that gold castle map reminded me of something simply I think we all know but haven't really considered. Knights get a boost from small, cramped spaces with corridors and dead ends, and archers get powered down. I think that the context of map design hasn't really been considered as much as it should have been. What if we have a map that was all tunnels, or was filled with random tiles floating in midair, like you get when you collapse gold castle. Archers get a noticeable boost from mountains and gorges, for obvious shooting reasons, but now also due to their arrow ladders.

Tree availability is also a consideration, and is one of the factors contributing to late game archer depreciation.

Maps have been mostly sameish until now, with the only differences being the gold castle and that one Furai map with all the prebuilt stuff.

Edit: Also I don't think knights should be able to push allies around. I think we've all died from that plenty. Outposts giving ammo is good and much needed but maybe they give it a little too often? I think they should also replenish health. Maybe 20-30 second timer for full replenish like they use to? I also don't like how random heart drop are. Maybe everyone drops hearts, you only pick it up if you press c on it and are injured, but maybe they only replenish one heart or something.

edit2: this version also runs a lot worse for me now.

edit3: return of the more ideas: I think that all classes should spawn with arrows and a bomb, so that they can refill teamies/can be picked up by enemies.

 

The combat is much funnier now, with both archer and knight. They're better balanced too. I have no idea how many of you can find that bad.

 

Ive only played once this last update, but it seems the game runs slower compared to the other ones... and i got a new graphic card.

 

Yes please!

2 issues with this build:

-corpses are indestructible sometimes, I hit them like 30 times and they dont disappear. What's with the corpses collision anyway? It's the most annoying thing in the game.

-Give archers more arrows... seriously. Or give archers an arrow every 5 seconds if they're below 10.

 

I think the builders need to do damage to knights again... Cause i want to atleast feel like i can defend myself when a knight comes round.
And in RL combat, Hammers > Armor. Yes the hammer can penetrate armor... But it can dent it... And imagine if you where wearing a helmet when a hammer crashes into the top and leave a 2 inch dent.... Your gonna be in pain..

 

Well yea, i fell like builders should be utter crap in combat. Maybe their attack only does .5 heart damage. And they have only 1 heart. But like i just hate when im building and a knight falls through a destroied spike trap right ontop of my head, and he has at most 1 heart left but the only option i have is run like a little sissy, or die horribly.

"RUN AWAAYYYYY"