New build discussion

I think that having the hit effects synced to the server would go a long way in making it feel responsive.

 

Not to be a nit-picking nanny, I told you guys to slow down on the builds. You should have left combat alone until all the bugs and other technical stuff got worked out and smoothed out. Then once that was all done, have builds where you were testing combat only. You can always revert combat to the way it used to be without affecting anything else and then just wait until you can get to it again.

Honestly I think before you can do any drastic change to combat, the game needs to be out for at least 6 months so that players can keep accumulating skill and then over time, you'll see from feedback and observation, what players really need and what they don't need. During those 6 months you could do small tweaks, but as you have seen, it is very easy to largely affect gameplay with the addition of a new combat feature.

I'd say bring the combat back to like what it was in what was it - build 67 I believe or pretty much any recent build before the current one.

 

I don't like using the knight too, it was funnier in the previous build. Remove the charged shot and let him dig as he digged before! It's almost useless at sieging now, it was fun to dig holes in a wall to get past it..

 

I only play knight since build 87, I do not think so.

 

Just had a match where at the start of the round a large wall-castle was built into the sides of a natural pit with impentrable rock at the bottom. Outposts on both sides. What happened? Enemy captures the outpost on their side of the pit, then respawning continually, did a suicide bomb rush on the impenetrable rock nullifying the point of the structure that was built. Demanding that bombs get decapitated in power by only allowing a knight to restock their bomb from an outpost only if they have at least 20 gold in their inventory (removing that 20 gold) and not spawn with bombs at outposts or class change (only HQ spawning grants "free bombs")
Lets face it, it'd also stop the WW1-landscape syndrome from happening, too.

Builder momentum should also be entirely KILLED while they're placing ladders (or anything) and velocity should be forced to be under a certain amount to place them to begin with. "Hurf durf imma jump around and place ladder spam EVERYWHERE" needs to stop, as it looks like a mess and provides too much mobility benefit (oh hey i'm an archer and i can move in two dimensions now. suck it, knights) for the amount of time it takes, which is none at all. Never mind you can fall down a very deep pit, place a ladder beneath you, and be entirely safe. The same goes for falling onto a ladder; you can be at terminal velocity and still manage to "grab on" to a safety ladder above a bed of spikes.
And said bed of spikes can be removed instantly by a knight that somehow survived (shield works on spikes apparently) and is now tearing up the only form of automated enemy-killing device in the game (bridged spike pit traps)

The gameplay that's implied to exist (fortress building, castle sieging) does not, even at this highly functional stage of gameplay, and when it does it gets quickly subverted by other (randumb deathmatch) kinds of gameplay. The more i play the more i realise the most efficient tactic would be to simply bumrush the enemy with a whole team of knights with minimal archers/builders who are in an entirely support role, building minimally defended outposts along the way. eventually there's so much pressure on the naked and literally defenseless enemy from the constantly spawning and suicide bombing knights they're forced to do the same just to protect their flag, and their efforts for building things drops to 0. at which point, that team has reached the point of no return and will lose the game, unless a miracle happens and they capture the nearest enemy outpost... or so many bombs go off, it drills a huge pit beneath the HQ that only vulnerable builders that are spamming bridges as stated above can build up to and capture the flag.

/rant
edit - or maybe i'm just depressed today after seeing the same thing over and over...

 

Agree completely aside from having bombs cost so much gold. I also think their killing power would be reduced if you stopped them from damaging indestructible rock. I mean it's indestructible for christ sake! Either that or have bedrock which can be destroyed by bombs and adminium which is even stronger than can't be destroyed by anything. It really is needed to reduce the cheese.

 

The only problem with making it so knights have to buy bombs is a question of "How will the knights get the gold in the first place?"

 

Is it me or almost nobody uses archers now?, they seem to be restricted to a very specific combat situation where the battle is located in low ground so they can fire with impunity.

But if the combat is on a flat surface or tunnels, archers become very rare. I think the problem is very simple, archers have only one role: killing, and knights in this build are better at that than them most of the time.

 

I've found that they're most efficient when allied Knights are getting into combat and distracting/taking damage from enemies while they sit back and fire arrows into the fray, and when they're defending structures. A good Archer can also continuously beat a poor Knight in 1 on 1 fights with little danger to themselves.

 

Very well put.
If all players play optimally building is kept to a minimum, I've played games like that before.

I'll just stop playing until this is corrected because it's so dumb.

 

Is it possible to test some thing on the next test server, MM? Like bombs not doing damage to blocks except player built blocks? I'd really like to see how that plays.

I agree with everyone on the cheese, it's just annoying. And I agree on the builder jumping while placing ladders as well. Paired with the new inability of knights to destroy ladders quick, a single suicide laddering builder can nullify any defense.

 

While I understand where you are going with this, it would break the game. As a builder, if knights couldn't destroy all terrain types, I would simply stop building my structures up from the ground, and instead would start digging them into the landscape, so my walls were just rock blocks and indestructible.

Making bedrock legitimately indestructible would go a long way to improving the "all the ground is gone because of bombs" situation. At least, it would be worth a try on the test server.

 

That's why I'd want to test this and see how it goes.

How so? I couldn't think of any way to build a castle so that the walls are completely buried in landscape without any exposed wall tiles to the enemy. And knights could still dig.

As I said, just something to test on a test server for experimental purposes.

 

the enemy builder would just as easilly put drawbridges or ladders across the top of the background dirt and walk over the hole (just like they do against the spike pit traps)

 

Howdy. I like the idea of rewarding good players with fun toys to play around with, but I'm wary of a few things. One is that the points system would have to be really solid for this economy to work out. I can imagine people finding all sorts of points exploits and using it to spend all the gold.

Secondly I'm wary of people playing to a points system rather than for the win. That should be synonymous but it isn't always so. For example in many games you are awarded points for being on a capture point when it get captured. The best way to help your team is to jump on the point and speed up the cap. However these positions are usually very open and people will be looking at them. The best way to buff your points is to cower behind cover and then jump out on to the point at the last second.

To buff their points people might be inclined to target enemies who just got whacked by an ally knight and is about to die rather than the enemy archer who's playing down suppressing fire. This could cost some allies their lives.

Etc etc.

Also I'm worried about the idea of making a person have access to entirely better options than yourself. Something I really don't like about Battlefield is that the really core, good perks like more damage and more health are only accessed at a high level and it takes a long time to level. I think this might take away from player skill and put more emphasis on how diligent your workers are. I dunno I'd be fine with bombs having to be made, or items that only change the way your character plays and not outright buff you. Like I'd think I'd probably hate if there was a "+1 health" item, or a "more damage bow" but I'd be ok with a "faster firing but bad at long range bow" or "arrows that slow enemies but do no damage". I mean as mentioned I, and probably most of the posters here, would probably benefit from this as a whole, but I don't like the idea of my successes not being attributed to my personal ability and the broad audience of noobs would suffer. I mean I hate it when games cater to unskilled players, but I don't think they should cater to good players too much beyond how much the game translates skill into success by its games mechanics.

But I dunno, I think it's probably foolish to jump to conclusions before it's implemented.

 

A reward system to get basic items doesn't sound very fun. I mean, it's practical, but some people like to just rush into the battle and blow shit up. It's just not as fun if the terrain isn't as easily manipulated, even less so when you have to work harder just to get weapons that have been given to you by default for 90 builds

In any case, I hope that if you do make terrain manipulation harder, you also nerf the builder since it's spot as "Most Unbalanced Class in the Game" will be taken to a new extreme if you don't. I only half joke when I make those silly drawings, you know.

Like, as a builder, you get killed very easily if you get caught in close proximity. That's fine and all, but that's only if the enemy can get you in close proximity. Since attacking builders often get killed, that's a lot easier said than done.

 

Builders ARE overpowered Sani, that's because they can shoot stone bricks like with cannon! Three persons aside me can prove that.

 

Yes I've kinda emphasized that many times

What with the tombing and the tunneling and building buildings instantaneously that stops everything but other builders dead in their tracks and the stone dropping and the ability to build death machines and whatnot

 

Knights should have the ability to shield from falling blocks!