New build discussion

I have just been playing on a server where we have defended one of our outposts with awesome drawbridge traps for like 30min...and we were only one archer, one knight and two builders. If you're clever enough to build useful structure and repair/maintain them often enough it works very well.

@MM:
Question: Why are there separate colors for the gold bulion for every team? I thought it is a simple block like stone which doesn't have an "owner".
Bug: As a red builder: Your cursor shows a blue door/drawbridge until you build it.
Suggestion: When you die after your last spawnpoint (outpost) got destroyed you should respawn at the outpost which is closest to the front/enemies (and not always at the tent).
Suggestion: It should be possible to see if an outpost is already being captured or is still yours. Maybe just change the color of the flag?
Suggestion: Although you removed that archers see further across screen (which is a nice change btw) you're still quite strong as an archer. Even in close combat. Even again two knights. The reason actually is quite simple: Most players playing as a knight have problems to hit you. Archers walk and jump so fast that knights have to time their hit very accurate. By clever jumping and using the terrain it's not hard to survive for like 5min and kill many enemies. You just need to be patient and be prepared for the right time to release that arrow. The only real enemy for an archer atm is another archer. If he aims good enough your dead. You can't avoid it. So my suggestion would be not to nerf the archer again (because it just makes so much fun playing with him atm, killing all those dumb builders which think they can mine and build on the front without fear) but to buff the knight. Make his hit-range greater. I don't know...just somehow make it easier for him to hit an archer which is jumping around him. Make him stronger at very short range.

 

Make people in closed tombs slowly run out of air. (Doors have airholes in them)

 

Yes! This pleaaase? Just make their sword either longer or make the range of it longer so that you can hit someone next to you and not on top of you.

 

Make tunneling harder by adding 'compression'. For every block on top of a given block, block gains some factor of resistance to damage/miners. This make tunneling take longer, and also make cheesing a castle wall down by taking two blocks out of it a little less enticing.

 

I still think the warmup period is pretty terrible. There's nothing to do except be a builder during that time period. When it expires, very few people switch. At this point, one of two things happens for awhile:

• Nothing: We're stalemated into a deadly game of cooperative building and group hugs. Or,[/*]
• More Cheese: Peasants throw themselves at the base of the enemy's wall, building cheese ladders up the sides which effectively turns the warmup round into a waste of time.[/*]

I'm telling you, if you want to foster castles: just make them easier/faster to build. Then make them harder to maintain as the game progresses.

 

I don't know because surely that would make it harder for you to catch up with him too? His own blocked in stone blocks would be harder to take down, and if you dig around them they've still got a lot of blocks on top.

 

That would make it a hellish task to mine for gold/stone

The problem now is that the builder's can place blocks a lot faster than they can be destroyed. Maybe the builder shouldn't just place blocks instantly. He clics, the block is "planned", and a second later it materialises. During the construction stage it can be destroyed with one hit. Think of it as building structures in an rts. Building castles wouldn't be slowed down too much, but you couldn't just place instant walls to protect yourself.

 

Who cares if it takes him 40 minutes to get across the map?

Not if you mined down from the surface properly.

 

Let's just say he does theoretically dig down and it takes him 40 minutes to get across the map. You certainly won't see him unless you're digging insanely deep down yourself. You now find it even harder to catch up with him than before and he gets your flag. It's almost unavoidable. There shouldn't be any sure-fire victory technique known no matter how long it takes to do it.

 

Looks like a glitch when you first see it, but isn't it a feature? One of the ideas behind a destructible terrain is to allow burrowing underneath the defenses. It's the defending team's responsibility to prevent this if you ask me, it's a part of the game.

Other than that, bedrock often provides protection against digging up your side of the map. You could tweak the terrain generator to create more underground obstacles if you find the issue disturbing.

 

I'm of the strict opinion that there's something seriously wrong with a match that's lasting more than 40 minutes.

 

"Defending teams responsibility"

What do you think he was saying? That they just ignored him? Often you can send countless builders and knights in after the bastard and he still manages to get away purely for the fact that he can keep reinforcing, with stone as Contrary mentioned. As he also mentioned if you manage to stop him you've wasted several men just to stop one builder. Sometimes I see two builders go in to stop him and the burrower kills both of them out of sheer luck. Builders can even elude knights by just running past them the other way, thereby completely wasting the other players time. Bedrock can work the other way as well, if a builder digs down under it you are forced to go through his stone blocks to get to him or dig down even further, if you do either you're wasting a monumental amount of time and he'll get away easily.

I think they get their responsibility, they're just unable to carry it out. What do you want players to do, dig underneath their entire half side of the map just to put doors and stone down to stop burrowers? There needs to be an easier way for 2 or 3 units to quickly finish off burrowers without having to send half the team on a wild digging goose chase. If there was an easier way to stop them burrowing would still be employed, because most burrowers recognise they also have the element of surprise and are unlikely to be spotted anyway.

 

Weren't you the one saying the average time of rounds right now are 40 minutes plus anyway? I'm sure not every round is also seriously wrong, so there must be a flaw in your logic there.

 

I'm not going to touch this game until it is reverted back to 71

 

I don't understand your second point. Pls elaborate.
Also I can think of the following to happen during the warmup-phase (all teamchat):

me: hey dudes, I've just collected enough gold and wood for an outpost. when the war begins I would need some help.
dude1: hell yeah!
dude2: I'm in!
me: ok, collect as much wood and rock as you can. when the timer is over we will rush to the middle of the map.
me: when I've found a good place I will use the [castle]-emote. at that certain point I want you to build high walls and such while I build the outpost.
dude2: yay, I like it.
me: some archers/knights helping us wouldn't be bad either. comrades, fight for every inch of ground. this is war!
dude1: aye sir!

But I understand what you're trying to say. When you have built something for 2.5min it sometimes becomes your baby. ;) And then you want to make it bigger and stronger and such. And then you forget to help your buddies on the front. But so far I've not seen too many builders staying at the tent for the whole time so I think it's not a major problem.

Then I want to say "Goodbye!" to you. :)

 

I actually couldn't agree more with all of these changes, though because they are rather big it should definitely be in a test build first.

 

yes to all of this. both building and combat need major overhauls. i think that all of these balance issues are in part stemming from the fact these core elements are unrefined.

i dont know why no one's talked about how cheap builders are before. i remember in like build 10 or whatever when ruphert was doing this burrowing crap.

 

I agree with everything Geti said.

As for the people who say drawbridges are not useless: Please post pictures.
A drawbridge becomes a bridge when you hit it... that's so lame.

Now I think the 1 hit kill by the archer was a bad idea. It's never good when you die instantly in a game, especially when you cant even see who shot you.