New build discussion

Hey Eggnog, Comjak. We should probably report that super duper awesome bug we found while I was grie- I mean debugging.

Yeah debugging.

 

Haha okay. So Sani was griefing the SHIT out of the dwatring server (by griefing I mean not)

EDIT: nothing happened... nothing to see here... move along


Hooah for grie-debugging.

 

By the way, I sent the email to MM.

You should probably edit out what actually happened.

 

Pfft that's so build 30.

 

Hehehe.

 

Ho Ho!

 

Everytime a tree is completly cut down, we can only build 1 block over it. Everytime we put a new block, the other one disappears :(

(that means building a fort in front of some trees will make it extremely hard to attack this fort, because we can't build ladders or anything)

 

For some reason, my game is incredibly laggy and the background is NOT showing. I don't have a bad computer because it ran perfectly fine on the test build and builds before this build. It's really pissing me off because I can't even fight anymore. -_-"
(This is on Windows 7, I downloaded the windows version.

 

Anyone read the devblog? Balloons!

 

1. Everything is shit-brown. Zoom out, move around and tell me how easy it is to see the difference between dirt and potholes.

2. Arrow velocity has been changed, in fact, it has been LOWERED, meaning that height advantage = domination. Hitting an entrenched archer is improbable since it is possible to crawl back into the hole before the arrow comes even close. Hitting enemies high above is a difficult task indeed. Arrow velocity/gravity should be returned to normal. Height offers a massive advantage to archers, potentially halting the game.

3. Knights are overpowered. It is impossible to break the shield and there is no delay between attacking and shielding, which means that you can shield at any time all of the time. 1vs1 archer against a knight, the only way for the archer to win is to fight a knight who doesn't know how to use the shield. Otherwise a knight will run and shield all of the time and you won't be able to do anything about it. Builders are absolutely useless against knights. If a knight runs into you while shielding or swinging, you become stunned and get pushed half a screen away.

4. Too many arrows. Here is a common scenario: spam arrows, spam, spam, spam, spam forever or climb in a trench and sit there, never needing to resupply. +2 arrows on tree chopping is too much, I'd still prefer +1. Even though I initially complained about the lack of arrows, now it's just too much. I'd rather loot arrows from a body than get enough arrows to last for a lifetime in a single fletchery session. I propose to return the arrow gain from fletchery to +1 but in stead give a dead body as many arrows as it took to kill it. Arrows that hit a shield or missed would not count, only those that would be stuck in the body could be looted. For example: You kill a knight with 3 arrows but 10 more were deflected by a shield. You can loot the 3 arrows from the body. It isn't much but when you are running low, those 3 could make a real difference. Not to mention that you would have to get out of your trench to get them. 15 arrows on start is okay.
Spamming would be impractical because you would run out of arrows way too fast but right now running out of arrows is unlikely. BUT NOT BEFORE THE MOVEMENT SPEED IS RETURNED TO NORMAL.

5. Suicide. True story: I was playing as an archer against a knight and a builder (1vs2) and arrowclimbed over a tower which the knight could not get over, so he killed himself to not have to run after me.

6. Catapult tiles act as sky background, everything that is in the sky without support will collapse. Catapult tiles are used by griefers.

7. Trees do not regrow. PlayerX joins any team, PlayerX chops down all of the trees, PlayerX leaves.

8. doors are not responsive enough: had to push for several seconds before a door decided to open up.
It is impossible to open doors while standing on ladders.

9. Fall damage: where do I begin? The whole concept is a disaster in kag. I have yet to hear a single good reason why it should even exist in the game, whereas I have presented more than a few opposite reasons:

Problems with fall damage in general: Can and will be abused by griefers, it is no longer necessary to collapse towers but build big ones in stead so that teammates would either fall off of them and die or grief it and get kicked. Creating pits under spawns will cause an unstoppable chain of deaths. Frantically avoiding fall damage leads to slow gameplay and reduces the efficiency of many stone-based wall structures. Getting over giant chasms and other holes will require builders and a lot of patience, making other classes too dependent on builders (once again, remember when archers had to wait half an hour for builders to show up and build a ladder over a 4-block-wall, well now you'll have to wait for builders to build ladders over holes.) Having to depend on a single specific class in not a good idea. Jumping over a structure with enemies behind it will get you killed pretty much instantly, since you get stunned once you hit the ground. if you hit the ground while cooking a bomb, you lose the bomb and it explodes in your face.

10. Too easy to lose bombs. Cook bomb -> get hit by an arrow -> lose bomb. Cook bomb -> get stunned -> lose bomb -> bomb explodes in your face -> You die...

11. Archers vs a knight: knight will win because the knight will shrug off arrows and be lightning fast because of the (unjustified?)overall movement speed increase.

12. Visual: Indoor ground and ceiling stone block tiles (with wood elements) look more like barrels than castle floor.

13. Performance: Transparent clouds greatly reduce fps on low-end machines.

14. Getting pushed by a shielding knight in mid-air can cause the pushed victim to get stuck in bedrock.

15. Smashed a door tile and noticed that it didn't drop any debris/chunks on destruction, it just vanished.

16. Cursor is behind the (F) resource selection menu.

17. Damaged drawbridges look nothing like their undamaged counterparts.

18. Severely damaged stone blocks look like castle wall background tiles.

19. Chat doesn't show when someone leaves: If I'm having a conversation with someone I don't know if he/she has left or is ignoring me until I specifically search for his/her nickname in the (Tab) player list.

20. Respawn: if I spawn as a builder but change my class to archer, I don't get my share of arrows at the beginning of the round.

21. Can't build on the bottom of the map. I have no idea why but I had fallen down with the tent and couldn't build ladders on the black border to climb back up.

22. Is it me or do teammate's bombs kill you? That is madness.

23. Occasionally, when I press F to cook a bomb, it gets thrown. I can't tell if it's just me but it has happened several times now. I wonder if anyone else has experienced this.

24. Cycling through classes: Sometimes you skip a class. Is it because of lag?

25. Max respawntime (when you die on your tent/outpost) is a measly 7 seconds. What does this mean? It means that you will have to fight the same enemy over and over and over while not moving an inch towards the objective. Capturing the flag just became 2x more difficult.

26. You can still camp in your tent forever (unless you get pushed out by a lucky knight or get the bedrock supporting it griefed). If you start to get spawnkilled by a horde of enemies, you have officially lost.

27. On destruction, bedrock throws rocks into random directions. It also happens when bedrock is erased in the map editor.

28. Players can freely build skybridges. Fall damage is not helping.

29. How do I run the map editor?

30. PlayerX joins red team, PlayerX joins blue team, PlayerX destroys all of blue's structures, PlayerX joins red team. Blue team wants to kick PlayerX but he is not blue anymore. Red team didn't see PlayerX grief anything. PlayerX leaves.

31.

32. Movement speed increased. Why? Were knights not overpowered enough?

33. Ghost of christmas past/ puppet/ doll


34. Tree stumps look like blood-covered spikes. I propose to elongate spikes by 1 pixel.

35. (Crucial) Lack of team balancing. Underdog team's requests for more manpower are ignored mostly because people on the other team would end up fighting teammates and destroying own buildings. Forcing players into the other team didn't work either, at least if the ones who got moved were playing since the beginning of the match.

Something could be done with respawn times, depending on the ratio between the number of players of the two teams. Alternatively, the respawn times could be adjusted based the number of players playing as a certain class. if 6/6 players were to play as knights, they would have immense respawn times compared with a team with only two knights, the latter team would have shorter respawn times.

36. Random sliding off of edges.

37. Decreasing archer's hit area when proning was a Bad Idea. It is already difficult to hit anything with arrows with all the jumping and speeding about but now it's just ridiculous. Either restore the hitbox to at least the one that you'd have when crouching or make archers suffer 2x damage from any arrows. Or make going in and out of the prone position slower than it is right now.

38. Arrows collide with constructions even when the purpose of shooting is to kill the ones inside (of catapults and outposts). Arrows ought not to collide with constructions but pass through but still damage the building.

39. Knights can't push corpses around but the fact that bodies no longer collide with arrows is refreshing.

40. Drawbridges can't be opened from below even if you keep smashing your head against the bottom.

41. Started map editor can not be disabled and can be used in any server = it is possible to see and edit the whole map

42. Unnamed Player?


43. Very rarely, enemies still spawn in captured outposts (that were initially built by them). Those could be new players that join the game and get a random spawn point which was initially created by teammates.

44. Holes in dirt background


45.

46. Blue flagger runs into red flagger. Red team wins.

47. Speedhackers using Cheat Engine's speed hack.

48. There are 2 players in each team, countdown has begun. One player leaves during the countdown. Countdown timer disappears but the round starts anyway.

49. It takes too many shots to destroy an outpost. Most of the time, outposts are built in absurd locations where the battles happen, meaning that they would be captured and recaptured every other second. Destroying the outpost is the only solution but there is not enough time to fire 20-30 arrows before teammates reach it and initiate the capture/recapture chain of events. in stead of increasing the health of the outpost, decrease the damage done by the bomb to the outpost.

50. Can't check which server one is playing on.

 

to those questions vig :

23.
yes, it happens to me too sometimes (ping seems to be no matter there)
24.
aswell yes, happens ALOT it's nothing from lag as it happens on 33 ping and on high pings way too much from what i can say, its a bug i think.

 

Both of these have happened to me as well.

Another bug I've found, though it's probably because it's not supposed to happen: When I edited the swordfight files to allow me to use bombs, multi-kills only register as a +1 (even if I blow up, say, 12. And yes, I've set it to 20v20 and spawned with a dozen bombs).

 

Just played a round where blue built an OP right outside our castle on top of a bridge. Once it fell through the bridge, it became impossible to destroy. I rained catapults on it, threw bombs at it, and they all made direct contact, yet it still stood without any damage.

 

Personally, i'd rather see the knight stunned for more by archers arrows, if only I can have my bomb back and allow me to throw it even if i've been stunned. I'm sorry but being hit by an arrow just ruins knights chances of throwing a bomb which is their only ranged attack, which makes them look like retards when the bomb goes off somewhere unnecessary. You can't say "use your bomb more carefully" because the whole point is i'm using my bomb to counter mass archers.

Otherwise I can't do anything against 5+ archers, they rape absolutely everything, more than 5+ knights do. I suspect 5 archers firing at 5 knights would be able to pick them off one by one easily if they all concentrated their fire on the first knight.. and if knights work together? They can't do anything till they get to the archer because the aforementioned bombs they had are now ruined! Monsteri said just 5 archers were able to rape everything and get the flag. I know knight spam was common in the previous build but I never saw it rape enough to get across the entire map in one go.

I know it sounds like a cop-out to say that 5 archers together are overpowered, but if you think of it like a graph, you should expect that if the game was balanced, adding more of the same class together would produce a certain curve of effectiveness. If you do the same with another class, balance would have it so that the curves are exactly the same across graphs: spamming 5 knights would be the same as spamming 5 archers.

Obviously it's not as black and white as that, but at the moment if you add another archer to an archer the effectiveness skyrockets, whereas if you add another knight to a knight the effectiveness merely doubles or x 1.5. Do this 5 times and you have a rape machine on one side and on the other you merely have a large group of slashing people who engage the enemy one by one, in a line. But the odd thing is, put an archer on his own, and his effectiveness is too low, meaning 1 v 1 an archer vs knight is underpowered, as vig said.

This technically means the only way to play archer effectively is to get another 3 or 4 people on your side. How flawed is that?

 

Also if you can jump off your enemy's head why can't you do the same with your allies? I mean it would greatly increase the chance of getting over walls without needing to shield boost.

 

This. Fall damage is a disaster on all levels