New build discussion

Archers are already the most boring class to play already. Another thing they can't do? They were already the most needy class- why make them require even more babying?

And why take away so many fun dynamics just to give archers the ability to screw people over with random one hit kills? 1HKO arrows make the archer more frustrating and less for the archer and enemies alike. Is this to allow noobs an easy way to kill people without having to have any skill? Catapults do that well enough already.

Another thing is why do archers start with so few arrows? Again all this does is reward bad players who die before their ammo is used up.

*Sigh*. I am acting childishly. Well I might be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time someone's made a premature conclusion on the balance of a video game. I guess I can't really made such a strong conclusion based on an hour or two's play. But I hope you at least see the reasoning behind my consternation.

 

Could you add a sound cue when the 1 hit KO is ready?

I dont like the blinking bar... I like to watch my target when shooting.

 

Yes, I agree with Vania. That bar looks ugly. Just add a new sprite and sound when the bow is fully charged, it'll give information enough.

 

I actually find them the most fun to play right now, they don't suffer from lag "luck" as much as knights, and it just feels great when an arrow hit the enemy just on the edge of your vision.

Archers are useless in sieges, they don't have bombs and can't take down buildings, and taking down the enemy building is what wins a game most of the time. So they have to be great at something else. This change makes them great defenders and makes the combo knight + archer great in tunnel fighting. Otherwise they would just suck.

Errr... ¿Because you can easily mine 10 more in a couple of seconds?, ¿or loot another archer's corp in the battlefield?

Give them more and 80% of the time you wouldn't need to make more, therefore rendering that game mechanich almost useless.

 

MM, it's interesting we have such polar opposite opinions, especially since it seems you are primarily a knight player and you are saying archers are underpowered whereas I'm primarily an archer player and I think they're overpowered. For a long time I felt that knights would never kill me, though I am getting killed by them more in this build.

@D'Nightingale When archer's didn't have a one hit kill before, people said they were overpowered. I thought they were great as a 3-6 shot kill on knights. I think they're ridiculous now as you can just fling arrows into crowds and reap kills like its nothing.

I was playing with Aoki the other day and we both ran out of arrows all the time, and especially with outposts not replenishing arrows (or hearts, dying is rewarded again) sometimes you don't have trees in the place you're fighting at. They don't even have a melee attack which even the builder has. You can occasionally loot archers but its not that simple. Sometimes their bodies fall into pits, or explode, or get looted by allied knights and workers (frequent occurrence). Even when you get to them, they've often also used up all their ammo.

Come on, just a small boost to 20 arrows wouldn't hurt. Everyone is still going to need more than that.

 

Contrary the problem i see with the archer is that their source of ammunition the tree has a stage where it will not grow back.

 

Wrong. Knight can hit a block diagonally as long as he's not standing directly on top of it. 1 hit and the bridge becomes a stable platform. To make a proper spike trap all you need is to put the drawbridge at least one square lower than the edges of the trap. This forces the night to hop onto the drawbridge, which would then collapse. It could be mined down to, but it makes the trap much slower to dismantle.

Also: Tunneler issues. Make the flag base sit on a 20 wide pillar of unbreakable stone straight to the bottom of the map. I realize that this wouldn't fix tunneling combat issues, but it would help make them a lot less useful. A lot of the time the tunnelers are trying to get under and around whatever defenses are built on top of the flag. By forcing them to come up say 10-15 tiles short of the flag they couldn't just come from behind and run off with it.


Contrary: The issues of archers running out of arrows might be addressed with wood stockpiles at some point in the future. Would allow builders to donate their starting wood for arrows even if every tree on the map is gone. Doesn't really make sense to me that the archer has to chop the tree to make his own arrows anyway.

 

You could also make it so if they're traveling at speed "x" or they've achieved "x" number of seconds of lifetime, they lose the 1 hit k-o. The close-range archers aren't punished because of this and the long-ranged ones are at the mercy of physics (if you go with the first option. Otherwise they're just straight-up nerfed, which isn't too bad imo :p)

 

Oh no I meant that without any connection to any of the changes that have happened in the new build. I'd attribute that to not playing for a few weeks (maybe just one week? I dunno) and not being used to the new changes. For example the changes to the charging mechanics. You can't spam as much as you used to and the not jumping while max charged is really significant as well.

I'd love to play with you guys but I think I am probably late for today's session. Are you on often? When would be the best time to catch you?

 

I think the prime time will either be in a few or eight-ish hours.

The new build though, man.
Even knights charge their attacks.

 

But archers were. Many, many archers still stand in the frontline and the chargehop nerf made them easy targets there, which is a good thing IMHO.

I'm of the same opinion as Contrary. Archers were overpowered a lot, now it's okay but random 1-hit-kills are just annoying, especially with the glitchy collision detection in KAG.

MM, if archers are/were no threat for you, try to play knight against FinDude who then plays archer.

Another offtopic suggestion: Make the flag carrier slower. This would reward teamplay to get the flag back instead of just jumprunning through the enemies.

 

I see no contradiction.

My guess is Contrary used to play short range archer a lot, and probably relied on jumping and arrow spamming to get his kills. The latest changes to the archer make it impossible to do that anymore.

I dont have a problem with those changes because archers should not be meleeing anyway.

The 1 hit KO is bad. I would prefer if the knights shield didnt cover such a large area and had to be oriented correctly to be effective: That would buff archers and nerf knights too.

 

Yeah my playstyle was often archer CQC. Jump over and drop an arrow on them. Fake a jump over, smack 'em with an arrow when they try to swat me, then backpedal and smack them again. Do that to the other two knights. It was the best way to circumvent their shields.

I did a lot of long range sniping too, but only to neutralize enemy archers before I got to work on the knights. But if you have to keep sitting back and retreating like you do now, you run up into a lot of problems. You can't hold ground and you get backed up into walls. Plus I dunno it might be better netcode or practice but knights seem better at hitting you out of the air, now.

In build 80 I found sitting on a hill and spamming to be the most effective tactic by a ridiculous margin, but I'm gonna try the new build now.

Also MM I don't know why you wouldn't take me seriously. I have screenshot proof of my successes. I am super egotistical and boast myself to be way better than I actually am, but the screenshots are real.The are not fabricated.

 

Hi, where do I get this release? The release in the downloads section is .77.

 

Download the Test-Version here. It should update to the latest Build.

 

Contrary is right. MM is wrong.

The only way of dispatching an alerted knight was to jump over him and shoot him in the back. Now, the knight has the same jump velocity as any other class (buff) and archers are slowed, lose arrow power AND cannot jump while powered up to the max. Firing an unmaxed arrow is a waste of ammunition and time. It would take more time to kill an enemy than for him/her to respawn. The optimal combat tactic for the archer is CAMPING, simply because any other form of combat has been, for NO GOOD REASON, made obsolete. Enemy archers can now just sit inside catapults/ outposts and spray you with arrows without any real danger from opposing archers, hell, builders can just build catapults for archers to sit in. This is absolute and complete fucking bullshit.

Revert the archer back to as it was in build 71 and make arrows do damage based on their velocity or watch how this potentially good game becomes buried and beshitted.

I've been playing exclusively as an archer since the beginning and I cannot comprehend what possible justification you could have for implementing this atrocity. Honestly, it takes a lot of talent to fuck something up so badly.

 

Guys, discuss the test build in the test build's thread.