New build discussion

This is all update-relevant, there's no new ["implement brand new item X"] suggestions or anything inside it. [Simply a "modify this feature to function more effectively/efficiently"]

- Problem: The player can lock themselves into a "useless" attack if they wait too long and their power bar drains to nothing. (unless i wasn't patient enough and it actually DOES reactivate once it hits minimum)
Solution: Have the attack strength bar continually cycle back and forth, so that if the player simply waits it out, the bar will return to maximum before falling back to nothing again. (and repeat) Reasoning being that as long as the player is holding onto their attack button, that means they want to attack even if the bar hit 0% and they didn't notice.
Result: Your patience for a good shot as an archer is always able to be rewarded if you lost your first oppertunity; the knight always gets another chance to cut you open at full strength. Everything is ready to kill you, eventually.

- Problem: It is not obvious enough how much damage your attack will do when you start the attack. How much damage does a 33% full archer power bar do?
Solution: Replace the gradient bar with purple hearts, which explicitly states to the player "You will do THIS much damage on a hit"
Result: You get the satisfaction of knowing how much you damage contributed to whoever you hit if you did hit them, and eliminates the frustration of "WHY DIDN'T HE DIE, IT WAS FULLY CHARGED!" (when it was actually 99% and you didn't notice)

- Problem: Players on opposite teams LOVE to run towards one another, jump like ninjas in a movie, pass through one another, and attempt (ATTEMPT) to hit each other. Then the fight turns into HYPERFASTUNINTELLIGABLEDEATHMATCH mode (yes, that has to be all one word to get my point across) where everyone is running and jumping like idiots until someone does the willhelm scream, goes splat on spikes, or gibs from a bomb /stone. (or uses a catapult and shotguns everyone)
Solution: Players on opposite teams will always collide with one another, as if the other character were (gasp) blocking their advance, wrestling with them, or otherwise being as hostile as they should be. It would be like if everyone always had a knight shield on them in every direction, but only for the other team and without climbing bonuses for teammates or a protection bonus for the player.
Result: Two players on the same team jump at and high-five each other, while two players on opposite teams jump, crash into one another, fall to the ground, and then bludgeon and/or cut each other to death. (unless one of them gets killed mid-air... then it really would be like a ninja movie) Possibly also, anyone who becomes stunned loses their collision ability, because they're stunned; you stun the knight, you get to walk past momentarilly. Two knights meet in a narrow tunnel, and don't need their shields to block each other; likewise, a builder meeting enemy knights from either end of the tunnel will be trapped and brutally murdered.

- Suggestion: A knights' charged attack should automatically trigger when the knight is targeting dirt, any of the rock types, doors, drawbridges, and stone wall, just for easier demolition and less stressful situations. Obviously things like background walls, ladders, catapults, outposts, and gold (raw or placed) should not auto-trigger the dig feature of the knights charged attack; knocking out those damn ladders with enemies on them should be difficult, but chipping away at a stone wall shouldn't be.

- Suggestion: Fully charged mode could stand to continue for like, half a second more. Even just a quarter of a second. A players' latency might be messing with the timing.

 

I agree with every point made above me. If I had the time, my post would have been identical. Thank you kind sir.

I only have one more issue: body's very often get in the way of combat and they have caused me many deaths because I hit the body and not the player. Can we have melee priority so I hit a player over a body?

 

Pk sur obole Inscrire ous le registered

 

Oh, jesus save us all. Games has hit the forums.

 

Just had a chance to play, finally. Great patch. I love everything about it. Archers are good at long range and reasonably weak at close range while still being a lot of fun to use. I feel like even more of a jumpy ninja now thanks to arrow ladders. I don't know why people are saying archers are bad at long range. Its fairly easy to snipe people, just a quick pap pap for people standing still. I mean you can't snipe people all by yourself when you only have a narrow window of opportunity to hit them, but that sounds fair. One guy shouldn't be able to instazap people dead and sniper squads work fairly well. And of course people running out in the open get murdered whatever you do.

Didn't play very much as knight but seems pretty good. I find them winning in close quarters a lot more than before.

Again I'd like to say that I really love the addition of the archer ladders. Really gives the archer a little bit more of an offensive presence. I love ninjaing up walls and clearing out worker nests, and its fair considering that you need to burn a lot of arrows to scale walls, especially overhangs, and you spend a lot of time getting the arrows and also when there's an overhang you spend time setting up. I also like running away from knights up cliffs and stuff. I think this needs to be explained to people though as I only saw a few attempts at it (all unsuccessful).

 

That feel you get when you are a knight raiding a base and all the builders rush you at once

Feels good man

 

I think that with 1HKOs on charged hits and massive stun on all other hits makes knights very good at close quarters combat against archers. I've been killed by lots today, though you can still do archer kung fu vs really crap knights. Good balance...

But I still feel that archers lack pushing power. Me and Eggnogg and a few other archers had a short period where we were just launching volley after volley and reaping kills, but we were actually losing ground even more vs the enemy. Archers are good support slayers, but knights can get pretty far before they die. Can spawn times be messed with? I'd like to see that stealthily tweaked on a big server, if possible.

As has been said, this is one effect of testing on small servers. The dynamics are quite different. Archer is more powerful on small servers due to a low amount of targets and little need to hold a line; he can retreat with little damage to offense and every kill is a big set back for the enemy. There is little suppressing fire to keep him from jumping around knights and there is less bomb spam and tunneling meaning more big outdoors fights.

I think the archer is very good at his roles of suppressing fire, sniping, and harassment. I think its the roles that are not powerful enough, not the archers ability to do them.

The class's ability to kill would be more valuable if killing is more valuable. I feel almost guilt at being an archer as I can't help the team as much. I think just a small adjustment to spawn times would help this tremendously, maybe a 10 second minimum and bump up the max to 20?

 

Contantry, to be fair I'd hate 20 seconds respawn time.

In this build:

:(

Also, only the knight hits last sprite appears in every hit, I mean the pic when the sword is down. Is it meant to be so? At least it looks very lame.

 

Have to agree with contrary on spawn times ever increasing upon death, rewarding staying alive. This would also punish suicide bombers, because they should be punished for such a cheap no skill tactic.

Not sure about colliding because I can see a line of enemies coming at each other all diffusing into a pile of red and a pile of blue next to each other, it would be a mess. But I agree enemies pass through you far too quickly. Maybe you walk slower while you walk past an enemy? Would give you more chance to stab him to death but he'd still be able to sneak past you if you didn't act quick enough.

Valence, it wasn't about being on top of the scoreboard, it was about knights barely being able to kill builders due to their jumpspam and builders actually finishing off weakened knights. If you don't like the fact you can't hurt people as a builder, why are you playing as him? Play as a knight or an archer. We all agreed we wanted the builder as less of a combat class and more of a building class (surprise surprise it actually LIVES up to its name) so this update pays off.

 

I dont know if class balanced, right now all Im seeing is Knight rumbles with everyone just jumping and jabbing randomly and stuff like total mess..

its almost as if everyone not interested playing as archer / builder, everyone would just go "FFFFFUUUUUUU" while jumping and jabbing randomly -sigh-

IMO:

1. Builders = OK (they are a class that supposed to fears both Archer & Knight, and they doing that pretty well now...)

2. Archer = Somewhat OK, I think de-charging is just annoying... I dont know what else doesnt work but right now I feel like Archer is a lil bit underpowered / not working really well

3. Knight = omg seriously that jabbing needs to be slowed down... it makes all the knight really high on sugar lately... LOL

 

Thing is i'm not any good at archer anymore, and I find him boring to play as now, because half the time i'm cutting down trees after dying, it's just not rewarding for me. I think the bonus of playing a knight is that he is very much pick-up-and-play. You don't need to cut down any trees, you don't have to have major aiming skill, you don't need a vast knowledge of genious building construction. Just need to know when to shield and when to stab. That's why I enjoy playing as a knight most, and I think much of the rest of knight players would probably agree with me. Even so i've managed to get much better scores than other knight players so even with such a pick up and play playstyle skill can be involved.

 

Well pretty much that's what Im saying... Knight literally major classes among other and when u see 10+ knight jumping around jabbing just about anything in their path... u just dont feel like playing...

I seriously think that jabs upgrade seriously overpowered currently, its too freaking fast.

 

ima beastly knight, was it on last build and im it still on the current build, in my opinion is archer now the strongest class.

to balance the knight with the archer i suggest to give the knight the ability for like 3 sec to hold the full charge and allow him to walk in this time. would be way more interesting and involve alot timing aswell. oh and for sure it would let ppl stop the quick knight stabbing :P

good job MM.

IGN : [HA] Wargod Loki

 

Charge attack for knight is worthless its better just to spam jab all day long

except for the fact that to dig you need to charge which is kind of annoying but understandable

 

True but if your locking shields with someone on flat ground what you can do is just start jabbing and they will start to move you backwards but you can use this to jump over/ontop of them and its essentially the same thing but with a surprise hit

i just dont like the idea of standing there charging in front of an enemy