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New Default Game Mode Proposal - "War"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Geti, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. unwoundpath

    unwoundpath Arsonist

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    Bruce lee was in mid-evil times? Where have I been?
     
  2. willy

    willy Guest

    Yeah, I'd have to agree with Lennartz and say the "elimination" aspect of the proposed game would be very tedious. Better to just end the game with destroying the main tent.
     
  3. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    Just because I'm really really tired of hearing "tent tent tent" there'll be no 'main tent' in this mode, you'll start with a spawning hall and be able to build outposts and perhaps upgrade those to tents for greater resupply. I'll say that again:

    NOT TENT, HALL. READ THE FIRST POST.

    I think a short time limit is much better than winning as soon as all the spawn points are destroyed because the former means there can be "surprise" wins during a siege that no-one's happy with. If someone's firing a catapult at your base, sure you're in trouble but you should be able to recover from it should you fight them off. That's why there needs to be an elimination phase. I expect most games you wouldn't have people trying to mine away into the corner of the map because in a siege builders are the first to die - I think a lot of the time the survivors would consist of only military units anyway and there'd be a final charge for great justice. Why is it always "worst case" with gamers?

    If there's a fool hiding down the bottom corner and it's boring and you really can't be bothered waiting the 2 minutes or whatever, vote next map. Spectators won't be able to vote -> it'll go through.
     
  4. Snoopicus

    Snoopicus Guest

    I heartily second this.

    His art style should be totally outside the typical KAG artstyle too - like Mortal Kombatish.
     
  5. SonOfBeer

    SonOfBeer Guest

    removing the flag.... for BRUCE LEE?
    ;-)

    Bullseye for the war mode. CTF does add unique tactical gameplay to a game (like Soldat), but not much in the case of KAG. There's hardly any alternate routes with players that can ambush the flag carrier.

    Chasing down the last builders that hides underground trying to get a new outpost running? That will be fucking hilarious !!! And if the guy doesn't have 120 wood he's fucked in the underground :)

    I always preferred destroying stuff than stealing a flag. Especially in a RTS styled game

    Sounds good!
     
  6. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    Bruce lee could spawn little clones. Like a bunch of big nosed Jackie Chan's and stuff
     
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    3,730
    @SonOfBeer: Glad we see eye-to-eye with the whole "extermination" situation.

    We're looking to tackle the issue of alternate routes soon enough in the map generation code. I don't really like flat land or gentle hills for the entire map because it turns the game into something linear, which is boring from a tactical perspective.
     
  8. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    So what would be the point of the archer's infiltration skills? Maybe make it so his axe damages buildings?
     
  9. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    To be clear, the archer doesn't have an axe. He might get throwing axes at some point to be more of a "ranger" class but for now, he's just got a bow and a whittling knife for making arrows.
    He'll be able to "hack" winches, levers etc, or at least jam them, essentially either opening doors for teamies or making the enemy replace them. Mechanical trickery, lockpicking, or whatever.

    I feel like buildings need to be harder to break once they're up but also weak whilst they're getting put up. I guess that should be discussed elsewhere, but if I was going to raze a castle I wouldn't attack it with a sword - I'd be there all day and net myself a damaged or broken sword and 1 stone removed. A sledge like the builders have would be more effective but it'd still take a lot longer than would be practical.
    Maybe stone blocks could take a while to "set" but after they're fully built they'd require siege attacks to be destroyed? There'll be wooden blocks soon anyway to allow fast for construction as a tradeoff for fast fort destruction... It seems that forts are far too temporary at the moment.

    I actually think it's more likely caused by the fact that blocks are destroyed at all, rather than transformed into other forms of matter. We could speed up the rate of destruction quite a lot if we made it so matter was never outright destroyed. Digging would transfer some dirt out of the wall or floor and onto the ground behind you. Digging tunnels would require some manner of logistics to remove the dirt, perhaps piling it into a mining cart to be dumped in a large pile behind the fortress. Freshly dug dirt could be easier to move around but would slowly set into the harder terrain tiles again. Castle blocks being broken would create rubble around their besiegers. It'd cause large changes to gameplay for sure, so if that ever happens I guess we'll have to add a "retro_tiles" server option, but I think it'd make tunneling and construction efforts behave much more realistically, which would greatly benefit a mode like this.

    So would fog of war and line-of-sight.
     
  10. unwoundpath

    unwoundpath Arsonist

    Messages:
    234
    I agree, 100% that would be awesome.

    EDIT: maybe make stone blocks take 20 stone, and have then be set like a catapult, so you would place half of it, and say, 2 seconds later you can play another, thus making a stone block.
     
  11. Lirael

    Lirael Guest

    This has to be the best game mode suggested yet.
     
  12. t0rchic

    t0rchic Drill Rusher

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    186
    So this would make it so that the maps were never entirely swiss cheese. Awesome.
     
  13. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

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    2,196
    How about map wrap? Doesn't work in CC, but could work in KAG.
     
  14. Garciat

    Garciat Bison Rider Global Moderator

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    0
    Perhaps structures could have minimum requirements for them to be considered castles by the game engine. Building a 1-block thick square (completely sealed) with stone background inside could provide it with +30% overall strength. 2-block thick walls for +50% strength.

    You could also add granite blocks, which would require 2x as long to mine and would slow down the builder carrying them, maybe even disable jumping. This would then be a great excuse for minecarts.
     
  15. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

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    1,958
    I love all your ideas Geti, and yours too Garciat. Map wrap is something everyone is hoping for.

    Here's something I just thought up to deal with tunneling.

    Make it so that dirt blocks are actually picked up just like stone is. Once you get to something like 300 dirt (new max limit) then your character is carrying too much and moves VERY slowly and can only jump up to 1 block stairs. They also can't break blocks. This would create some serious strategising in order for people to tunnel. You'd have to either have someone coming in with you to trade the dirt and ferry it up to main land, to be dumped somewhere, or you'd have to create a few dirt seams on your way down to replace the dirt you've already picked up and repeat this... OR live with the slow speed and make the ascent 1 block stairs to climb. The only problem I can think of is you could abuse this by suiciding and/or blowing up your body = dirt gone forever, so perhaps Geti's idea is better. I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be allowed to carry more than 250 of each material either, but make it so that over that limits you with speed, the same thing as dirt, this means feasibly you won't waste any material but you've got to figure out some way of getting back up. It would help people understand not to dig too much.
     
  16. t0rchic

    t0rchic Drill Rusher

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    186
    So it'd be like being over-encumbered in Fallout or the Elder Scrolls games? That'd be nice.

    Also, I think it would be better if there was a chance for dirt to be destroyed when mined, like a 50/50 thing of whether it's moved or completely destroyed. That way you could dig without burying yourself alive, but the map wouldn't be utterly destroyed.
     
  17. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

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    I haven't played fallout (*waits for people to gasp*) but slightly similar to elder scrolls in that you're limited by weight, but not quite as in elder scrolls you can't move at all, you have to drop something. I'm suggesting still being able to move, but very slowly, meaning it may or may not be worth collecting too much, depending on how important it is.
     
  18. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    3,730
    @t0rchic: glad you approve, I think it'd solve that issue nicely.

    @contrary and map wrap lovers everywhere: Map wrap is more or less planned. It's just a matter of implementing it in a way that doesn't lead to wacky things happening on the seam.

    There's not going to be a limit of 250 in later builds once we sort out the whole "everything is items" shindig - it'll be X stacks of item for builders and less for everyone else. It should make trading crap easier, you can just drop stacks of whatever for your teamies or trade directly like now. Stockpiles might have an inventory of 25 stacks shared between all the stockpiles. Chests might have an inventory of 10 but no sharing. Stacks would fall out of broken stuff. Ideally stacks of a natural material near each other would form residue on the ground that would have to be mined.

    It's going to be a huge pain to implement though, hahah.
     
  19. Neat

    Neat King of the Dead Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,958
    Hehehe, so if dirt blocks were implemented that would be a handy fair way of storing them before you get over encumbered, but yeah I don't know if you feel for that idea. Either way, all of that sounds awesome ^^.
     
  20. t0rchic

    t0rchic Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    186
    In Fallout, it works the same way as if you have high Heavy Armor skills in Elder Scrolls. You can move, but you're limited to walking.

    Also, maybe give certain things different weights? Arrow<Wood<Bomb<Gold<Stone?
    And have a weight limit to the right of the bomb icon for every class. That way when you loot items off others (Arrows, etc) as a knight (Or dig) or archer, your load can still be too heavy. Then people will be more encouraged to bring back items to their team's builders instead of going on suicide runs with 200 stone on them.