Offensive Symbols in KAG --> Offensive Symbols in General --> General Chat on Religion

Indeed it's complicated, Sly; but often only because we make it so. ;~;

 

I just did a couple of searches to try an clarify this whole point in my mind, but everything I found was sourced from Catholicism, but also really vague and fluffy around the details. Can you clarify why exactly someone would go to hell, according to the catholic faith?

 

In that case, what happens to babies? And what about the saints who went about killing people? Finally, can people who sinned lifelong go through purgatory, and just get their 'get-into-heaven-free' card there?

I love that analogy though. :P

 

I wish I could answer the whole baby thing, mainly because it seems that is the sort of question that is very clear that it says babies SHOULD go to hell or purgatory, yet people will very often go against it for popularity reasons (I mean powerful people in the state will say otherwise).

 

What about the saints who basically made their way in life killing people? Particularly, Olga of Kiev, who, to be honest, did some pretty cool but totally murderyish things.

 

Well, at some point when I've the brain space I'd like to write out a Protestant (i.e. non-Catholic, non-Orthodox) take on the above issues, but in the meantime I'd like to ask a question of you, Sly...

What (according to the Catholic tradition) is sin?

I ask because it suddenly occurs to me that, despite studying theology at a Catholic university for four years (so I could try and get a handle on your crazy pope-centric doctrines), I never thought to ask for a formal definition of the term. However silly of me it seems in hindsight, I guess I just assumed that we were talking about the same thing whenever the S word was bandied about. If it turns out we're using different definitions then that'd explain a lot...

 

Okay, that's a start, but what do you mean by "moves you 'away' from God" and "[an action that puts] a 'black mark' on your soul"? What do you mean by 'away' and 'black mark'? Could you unpack those terms a bit more, plox?

Also, thanks for this, I'm enjoying the discussion and Q&A. :)

 

Right, so what's the functional difference between a) 'weakening your relationship with God' and b) 'committing a crime against God's rules'?

Forgive me if I'm being obtuse here (or maybe a little too Reformation-y, perhaps?), but it would seem to my mind that not only would doing b) result in a) but that (once you get down to brass tacks & technical definitions) the only way to do a) would be to effectively b)-- the same way the only real way to weaken your relationship with a friend is to do something not cool with regards to said friendship (be that punching them in the face, sleeping with their partner, or even simply just ignoring them/not finding the time to hang with them).

Does that make any sense?

 

A appears to be there only to value brinksmanship.

 

Heheh. While I'm not sure I really see what you mean, BL, your comment puts me in mind of something. Tell me, ever heard of Grigori Rasputin? He had some hilarious theories on the attainment of grace, his primary one running something like this: God gives grace to sinners ergo sin leads to grace ergo I must sin more in order to obtain more grace. :D

Okay, so, if I may ask then: In light of a) & b) being functionally the same, what's the actual difference between venial & mortal sin?

Now, I realise that Catholic doctrine makes a distinction between differing kinds of sin but (if you'll forgive me for drawing on the work of Protestant theologians) taking the notion that God is infinite & perfect to its logical conclusion means we get the idea that "Objectively speaking, for an infinite & perfect being even the smallest of wrongs towards said being is infinitely wrong"; i.e. we have to conclude that there are no 'grades' of sin, rather it would seem (going from what we know of God) that all sin (great or small) is just as bad in the end (consider, as reference, James 2:10 & 11).

NB: really not trying to start an argument here, it's just that I've been pondering these things for a while & now you've given me an opportunity to poke questions at someone who does more swimming in Catholic waters than I do. ;)