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Official KAG Servers

Discussion in 'Server Directory' started by FuzzyBlueBaron, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. king-george

    king-george Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    284
    Well, technically freedom of speech doesn't have a boundary. For instance, you are not allowed to draw Muhammad in Islam, but do people still do it? Yes. This happened in France, and the consequence was that they were killed. But can you get killed for saying "Go fuck your mother" to someone totally random on the internet? Highly doubtful. Instead of killing people, one should talk to the people that do it. For instance, if you do happen to feel hurt by the statement above, then you should say "Hey X, could you stop referring to my mother? She passed away a week ago and it is hurtful to me", and then one can understand that it is wrong. That is how it should be.

    So get over it folks, both Gunslinger and Daskew overreacted in my opinion. No one is perfect.
     
  2. Furai

    Furai THD Team THD Team Administrator

    Messages:
    3,124
    And what am I supposed to do with all of you guys? Tell me.
    I've read everything, looked through provided logs (not ones from the servers itself, couldn't be bothered to get those). My opinion? It's the usual war between admins and users. It will happen everywhere. Everywhere where there is some kind of hierarchy. So, @Amrrrica made a mistake (a minor one if you ask me). Then @daskew87 started war over nothing, I'd just let it slide in his place but he chose otherwise. Others joined up because why not?

    To be honest I don't know how to resolve it at the moment. I'm letting the discussion to go on because it's important one but let's stop blaming each other for mistakes made. Because they were made on both sides. I don't want to take any actions against any of the parties. I don't see a point in it. Of course, my loyalties lay with Admins, they're kind of "my kids". And every time something like that happens I feel personally responsible for all of this. So if you want to really blame some one - blame me. :)
     
  3. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I do definitely agree with that, but having a joke is different to deliberately harassing or bullying someone. If I said 'fuck your mother' to someone without knowing their mother passed away, and then they said so, I would say sorry. It's pretty obvious you'd do that. Dask wasn't harassing or bullying so please be quiet with that bullshit. Thanks.

    "You are one of the few people i actualy muted"

    Case and point, muting me because you don't like me.

    Also I never grief anymore so leave that excuse out of it. Thanks.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2016 ---
    Remove all the terrible admins, lol. Start with this Amrrrica guy, he is still trying to justify his actions when he is in the wrong.
     
  4. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,319
    i just want the inactive ones removed
     
  5. Furai

    Furai THD Team THD Team Administrator

    Messages:
    3,124
    Guys, we've undergone such thing as admin culling quite recently.
     
  6. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    ya but managed to get rid of the goods ones like 8x and jiggy :(
     
  7. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,319
    can you please update fbb's original post with list of current admins then?
     
  8. RampageX

    RampageX Haxor Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    195
    They left or were inactive.
     
  9. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    People should have the right to offend people. If someone says, "that's offensive don't say it", where does taking offensive fall into the matter? I could simply take offense to your saying hello to me, since in my mind it is offensive to myself.

    And yes, online bullyingn etc should be stopped, but seriously, what dask should not entail a mute.

    Quite simply, is it fair that an admin can mute a player for basically swearing, but the normal player has to put up with something similar happening to them? Nope.

    Once I got to my computer later today, I'll attach a quote a previous admin once said to me, that I think sums it up perfectly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  10. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    Being offended=/=trying to silence someone.
    It does but only needed ones(for instance your freedom of speech cannot endanger someone else).

    Telling an admin to go fuck his mother is hardly a threat(at best it is a rude suggestion). All these things are illegal here as well(again this shit has nothing to do with what we are talking about).
    Um....fuck your feeling(when you are trying to silence people). Admins can feel bad just like the leader of turkey can, it only becomes a problem when you want to arrest journalists who advocate against authoritarianism or, in a much much lesser sense, when you mute someone for hurting your feefees)

    Then it becomes more offensive? What does this have to do with anything it still isnt an excuse to silence someone(in this situation social pressure against the asshole works really well).

    "in check" like where, in public? How is being loose with vulgarity in an online game(with kid-fucking-safe) a bad thing? Also would you prefer if he said "hump" since it isnt a swear word?

    Offended people can use social pressure against you or hit the magic ignore button. Someone feeling harassed/bullied does not make them harassed/bullied.

    Yes in a terrible place like Saudia Arabia "free" speech could have some severe consequences. However, in the first world, and in an online game we played to play, we shouldnt be punished for letting loose some vulgarity or offensive speech(unless it goes too far ofc, sadly everyone has their own version of too far though). Also the semi=threats arent exactly all that scary(partially because youre an ocean away) and im not one to cower to the "YOURE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO SAY THAT IN REAL LIFE" bs. If you think words give you the right to put your hands on someone then i think you are the actual shitty person.

    Links about bullying: that shit has nothing to do with what is happening in this 2d game man. Generally speaking internet abuse is considered less harmful because of the ability to block out your harassers.


    Also generally speaking about bullied victims killing themself: Obvious a terrible situation but those people generally have more issues than just told to go fuck their mother. I hate it when people conflate real trauma with mean words, almost as bad as when people blame school shooting on toxic masculinity(instead of the actual triggers like harassment, physical assaults, abusive parents, lack of mental healthcare ect).

    That isnt quite fair. I ignored all the hearsay bs because i couldnt decide what really happened and focused on the real issue. I brought up my issue with the mute because i could easily see myself in the same situation and did not want to be treated that way.

    Ok i blame you and request that you educate your admin on muting rules. Or at the very least allow us to know what the rules are if they changed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  11. toffie0

    toffie0 is sweeter than you <3 Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    345
    FBB's post should now be updated. (first post listing all the admins for those who don't know what I'm talking 'bout)

    My opinion on the topic:

    As far as muting goes, I think giving multiple warnings before a mute occurs are needed, with the statement of why and what will happen if they continue the course of action they are taking.
     
  12. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,319
    auburn is active?
    cameron1010 is active?
    joiken is active?
    link6155 is active?
    sir_walter is active?
    titmau5 is active?
    solaris is active?

    all the other people who log in once every 30 days just to still be admin are considered "active"?
     
  13. cincoscuencas

    cincoscuencas Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Angels of Death - [AoD]

    Messages:
    41
    Lol. So that person who swore at me is not a shitty person? It might be a shitty move but at least I get to destroy that person's guts. Ahahahaha. Also fuck your feelings too.
     
  14. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    I hope you know that the API is not considered the end all be all in terms of determining activity right? just played 3 games yesterday and it says I haven't played for almost a month.
    lot of the official admins are also college bound so you gotta cut some slack there.

    unless there needs to be some major culling again for inactivity (which i doubt since most of us announce when we have leaves for college / schooling / etc), we've gone from ~70 admins last round to now 42. seems good enough for me unless @Furai feels like reopening the applications.
     
  15. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Who cares about inactive admins? It only really matters about the ones who are active and are abusing.
     
  16. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    That is completely the wrong attitude for an admin.
    "Atleast I get to destroy the person's guts."
    Like seriously, how is that a good attitude. You are put into a position of power to make the sever better/safer etc, but instead, you are basically saying that I can punish whoever I don't like?
     
  17. cincoscuencas

    cincoscuencas Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Angels of Death - [AoD]

    Messages:
    41
    Lol ehra. As I said, id prob do that irl not in kag. Where did I say I can punish whoever I dont like?
    Lol, now you are complaining about what I said where is my freedom of speech? See now I am getting a reaction from what I said which is my point: that you can have freedom of speech but if say something rude or negative, then dont expect it to have no consequences or reaction. Others may not react at all, but others may react.

    Also now you want safer and better server then be nice and not be rude. Then if you get muted for saying something rude then you'll complain then at the same time demanding a safer and better server. A bit of irony eh?
     
  18. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    1,133
    I'd like to point out that you've made a poor argument here.

    Freedom of speech does not mean that one is safe from backlash for their words. Freedom of speech just means that someone can say things without being suppressed by an authority. With this difference in mind, it becomes clear that you've made an uneven comparison.

    Muting someone for their words is taking away some of their freedom. (I'm not saying there are no cases where muting is appropriate.) Meanwhile, eragon has simply replied to your post. No freedom has been taken from you. Now, if I were to delete your posts because I disliked them, that would be closer to taking away your freedom.

    In an ideal world, both admins and players will try to achieve mutual understanding. You can't always expect the players to be compliant. But it sure helps if the admin makes an attempt to understand the other side. Eh, I don't really know how to solve these problems. I just wanted to point out the error in your logic.

    EDIT: After reading some previous posts that I had skipped, I realized that I might have simplified your overall argument by focusing on this one point. My point about freedom still stands, but discussion about the effects of online bullying is above me.

    As I hinted above, I do believe there are situations where the freedoms of a person should be restricted. So do insults justify mutes? Speaking personally, I never mute someone for insulting me. But if I notice a person being toxic toward other people, I might ask the "victim(s)" if they feel harassed. If so, I will warn the toxic player, and/or mute them for continued behavior.
     
  19. cincoscuencas

    cincoscuencas Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Angels of Death - [AoD]

    Messages:
    41
    Yo. Thanks for correcting me.
    Yes I admit this is hard to resolve. But all I am for is for everyone (admins and players) to be nice. Yes, everyone is different, will have different attitude, and will react differently.

    When I am admining, I dont silence people unless it gets to a point that it constitutes verbal harrasment especially to players who let me know how they feel. As much as possible I would assess the situation (as this is case to case basis), hand out appropriate warnings then if after reasonable steps to stop the rudeness then I will finally apply a mute.


    And this is my point, if you are being rude and disrespectful towards other people (player or admin) then you may get muted because you are basically abusing your Freedom of Speech.
    Just like you are free to do anything right now but if you break the law then you loose that freedom (you go to jail).
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2016
  20. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    But the thing is, things such as no swearing are Rules not Laws. There's a difference.

    Freedom of Speech as an actual human right. Someone (disregarding things in Israel etc) should be able to both say/offend whoever they like (within reason, concerning death threats etc.) Yes a person can take offence to what was said, and can argue, get annoyed, reply or whatever, but no actual action should be taken against said action (ie. in daskews case).

    What I'm also trying to point out here, is the fact that an admin should not have control over muting a player because of a personal reason (primarily at taking offence). Simply, if offended, just hit the ignore button. Problem solved. Don't use your power to server wide mute them. Because that just highlights inequality (if an admin can mute for personal reasons, why can't a player?).

    I'm happy to debate this in a pm with whoever if it seems that its clogging up the thread.