old/new archer abilities

I am really annoyed by the harvesting with right click, it seems outdated with how common arrows are.
I thought grappling, and arrow ladders would be a perfect match.

 

The most worrying thing you need to be anxious of is if the archers can actually being able to use the arrows in a combat effective way.

Spammed arrows do nothing but waste arrows.
[I was far removed from needing stuns, I used potshots, and 3h health to dance dirty with the knights]

 

Have you not read the above?

The archer needs to be a reasonable combatant to assert their power as a ranged combatant.
Besides, builders are more support than anything, since they deal with production, and construction. [Engineer]
Knights are Soldiers/Demo [Lightning Bruiser]; Archers are Scouts/Snipers [Fragile Speedster/Glass Cannon].

Otherwise Knights are Melee, Archers are Ranged, Builders are Engineer; it is less generalized than Off/Def/Sup.
I'm annoyed why everyone wants the archer to be back bitch to everyone else, and considers Builders more of a defender than Knights, knights prevent all enemies from getting into, or near the hall.

I'm taking it from the perspective that the Archers are the only other combat class in the game, they should be strong in terms of ranged combat, but because of how Knights work, they pretty much have to pull out each stop to get a Knight to not use their shield, which has been for the longest time been abusing corners that knights don't shield around, and getting in close to make the knight attempt for a stab or a slash. The former can't happen because archers aren't opportunistic and can't deal that much damage, and they quite clearly can't go on the field with such little health, so they have decreased utility, placement options, and can't be used for on-field support or harassment, because of it.

 

It's silly to compare KAG's classes to TF2's classes. TF2 classes are over generalized and each class can do anything. Trying to model KAG's classes' roles after TF2's classes' roles is silly, the archer is really suppose to be a bitch. The builder is meant to construct defenses to prevent further advanced while being supported by archers. Knights are suppose to lead the charge while being supported by archer fire.

What is NOT suppose to happen is a full team of archers appear and kill any knight charge that comes their way. The only reason King Archer's Gold is in this sorry state in the first place is because people who mainly played as archer were dumb and couldn't stop crying over being killed in close quarter combat by knights like they are suppose to be.

Want to fix King Archer's Gold? Remove this silly patch and buff builders so they can finally make proper towers that will protect archers from knights so they'll stop crying and moaning about getting killed over their retarded actions.

 

Archers are the other combat class, they shouldn't become completely dependent on other classes' presence, especially since they are the other class used in RDM.

Knights are supposed to be melee combatants, Archers are supposed to be Ranged Combatants.
Both should be a considerable threat to each other.
Knights have their shield, Archers used to be able to do a considerable amount of damage to a Knight.
Now archers are pretty much useless against Builders, and Knights unless they go full retard.

I'm considering defense in a combative setting, builders are landscapers, and they are good at it.

[As far as anything, it seems the classes are Offense-Defense, Defense-Support, and Offense-Support.]

 

Uhh yeah, I'm just going to stop debating with you now, because clearly you play KAG a lot and know all the meta of KAG and you clearly know what you're going on about.

 

The problem with triple arrows is that they can cover bigger surface (spam LMB while moving your cursor) with less aiming. Basically easy mode for every arrow nigger out there.

Also saying that spikes stop archers at all is wrong. Saying that grapple is overpowered is even more wrong. Archers can't do anything once they grapple over your wall. Literally. Unless you were dumb enough not to make walls around your hall.

I think archers are fairly ok now. Fire arrows definitely need fixing (the only time I got passed enemies' main base [with spikes all over lol] and found wooden walls and doors, I couldn't burn them because of some nasty glitch). Anyway, archers CAN matter on the battlefield now, mass archers obviously suck but they get great synergy with knights who can break shields.
I really want something to replace the triple shot as it's just way too easy to spam and while you can still play around triple shot spam from a team of archers, it's super annoying. On the other hand the triple shot is what allows archers to OHKO knights after a shieldbreak so IDK.

tl;dr
replace the triple shot with something that is viable only in actual field combat and not arrow spam from your tower, fix fire arrows, maybe give archers some satchels

 

If you think that one combat class should end up being pushed around by another combat class, no matter the player's skill, and be the latter classes' bitch as you so plainly put it, then you really have no idea what the word 'balance' or 'fairness' means.

 

I've seen all this balance and fairness while playing, then seeing the whole enemy team composed of archers jump over your wall and triple-shot everything. Sure love it how people think the archer needs /more/ buffs to make the class "balanced 4 everyone :))".

 

Archer vs. Knight had a very good balance before this patch. If you are skilled enought, you were able to kill a knight in close combat, very risky but fun. Now you have no change, you have to stay outside of the battle and spam arrows, just boring. The only thing you can kill effective are other archers and fishes...

The grappling hook? Nice but I don't need it, climbing with arrows was good.

Please make the archer more flexible, so that people can decide on their own how to play it. (close and range)
The LegolasShot is nice for range archers (and for new archer players) but not as much effective and fun as the old close combat archer.
I totally agree with Landoo2:
- raise archer health from 2 hearts back to 3 hearts
- raise charged shot damage from 1 hearts back to 2 hearts ( so the old damaging system )
- make legolas shots (or multi draw, whatever it's called) only do 1 heart of damage per hit

I was a good proud Archer, now I started to play builder because of shit.

 

It's not necessarily vital for archer to be able to kill people, and while I would personally like to see this such a change would likely only be a Pyrrhic victory in the face of the backlash from our anti-archer butthurt community.

I think the heart of the issue is that archer needs a role to play, and this doesn't necessarily have to be killing people. Look at the builder for example, builders can't kill anyone, but no is complaining that they're useless. Builders have never ever been a useless or redundant class throughout all of KAG's history because buildings are entirely indispensable. The archer doesn't need to be equal to the knight in aptitude for any field, it needs to have its own field where it is the unparalleled paramount. It needs to have its own unique abilities that are vital for the success of the team.

Right now I think the best way to start is to look for reason for archers to go out into the field. The archer is spoiled rotten for mobility options yet even if it penetrates into the heart of enemy territory it's stuck twiddling its pixelly thumbs. Maybe archers could have the ability to "sap" or temporarily disable/deal a lot of damage to siege machines or workshops. Maybe they could also "hack" doors to change the locks on them, which would be very valuable now that knight's bombs inexplicably fail to do damage to stone doors. Maybe they could persuade enemy migrants to go on strike. There are a lot of possibilities for the class, especially with the space bar freed up. Any of these would give archers lots of fun things to do, make them more valuable in the eyes of the team, and not cause nearly as much butthurt as being able to kill everyone.

Archers do need a lot of change but it's also important to recognize how much can change with player's development of skill. Builders got huge player directed buffs with the discovery of door notches, acavado spikes, and the myriad of other tricks they have. Archers and knights got much stronger with the discovery of shoot->stomp and double bomb jump respectively*. If you want to see buffs for archers, you can do it yourself by finding more stuff. There is a lot of unexplored cheapness in this game with all the new items to play with. Maybe you can jump in crates to dodge bombs, stun with a bucket then land a meaty triple shot, there are lots of possibilities. So archer players, go out there and discover. Buff your class.

*For the sake of my ego I'd like to note that I discovered both of these.

 

I'm just sitting here watching casuals and people who do not even play beta completely avoid the meta game when discussing balance issues.

 

Very well said contrary. maybe now the archer class will stop complaining about things x.x

 

you are just bad at dealing with archers so you decided to call everyone a casual

*thumbs up*

e: my post was addressed at arcrave

 

Yeah, a light armour fighter

Sounds like a new class, some kind of Ninja/Saboteur/Thief... (It can get that grapple, archers don't need that)
Would be interesting but doesn't match the idea of an Archer, wikipedia says: "Historically, archery has been used for hunting and combat" and that's what I want to do.

 

says the guy who watched me tear through an entire team of archers



e: my post was addressed at ejay