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Open letter to Aphelion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by norill, Feb 11, 2014.

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  1. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

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    he did more than "tweak some scripts" he wrote the entire player logic for the necromancer, since before there wasnt any for it, only a sprite and some simple ai.

    and yes, that does make it his code.
     
  2. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    I have written my own orb control code and I apologize for this situation.
     
    norill, Konfitur, Piano and 4 others like this.
  3. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    Actually, having slept on things, I feel that there are two parts to this public discourse and while not everyone is qualified to participate in both parts everyone should be encouraged to participate as much as they are able (and still, you know, be constructive).

    Part a) of this discourse is facts-- and that's something Klok was lacking in his first & subsequent posts, which is why I told him to can it. People posting "X did/did not happen" aught to be certain of those facts and (ideally) be able to back them up. This means most bystanders (Klok, BL & myself included) aught not be doing this part.

    Part b) of this discourse is interpretation of the facts-- and that's something that everyone should be allowed to do, so long as their contributions to the conversation are fair minded and non-flamey. People posting since my first post have been right/wrong about various things, but (knowingly or not) they've confined themselves to simply trying to make sense of what facts have come to light, which makes things all G.

    In short: please feel free to contribute, Klok, BL, etc., but unless you have solid facts pertinent to add to this case please restrict your conversation to the interpretation of such facts as others have provided-- this way we'll get maximum discourse for minimum muddying of the waters.
    ----

    Actually, norill made a good point in a PM about this where he's pointed out that this [mod/code attribution & associated matters] is actually an issue for the community at large to grapple with and work out some kind of consensus. As a result the thread stays open and closely modded to try and allow space for us as a community to articulate/work out how we want to face these kinds of things going forward.
     
  4. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    Good to hear, Aphelion. ::):

    If I may ask, have you considered how you'll respond to concerns that you're running a closed-source model of operations in a community that seems to be very open-source?

    Also, just wondering if it might not be a worthwhile thing to at least (belatedly) reference norill when you post your next change-log documenting your new orb control. Just as a gesture of good faith and all that. :3
     
  5. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

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    What does this mean for previous versions of Aphelion's work however, from a copyright perspective? I'm curious.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  6. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    Shouldn't be a problem anymore. I mean after all he never shares anything

    /joke

    As a gesture of good faith I do think that he should make Norill orange on the server anyway as a sort of retroactive apology? Even after rewriting the code that'd still be the bro thing to do in this situation.
     
    Sirpixelot and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  7. Duplolas

    Duplolas So Sad

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    I would assume that the issue still stands.

    If I were to steal from a store, but return it because I feel guilty, I could still be charged with theft. It is up to them whether or not to charge me.
     
    startselect3, crawfish and Rayne like this.
  8. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

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    The issue is that we're dealing with IP here, and depreciated IP at that, which means not all the standard rules apply (not that I know which ones do, because that would require actual study & effort). Anyone with experience in such matters?
     
  9. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    @norill Your post is misleading. It goes to say that I:
    When in fact my only file that contained your code was OrbTick.as, which was a small hiccup; I was unaware of your license when I copied your 27 lines of code, and again, I apologize.

    Because of that you're claiming ownership of my mage mod:

    As for the authorship issue, OrbTick.as did not exist in the original version of my mod and author tags were not present on the orb files. When OrbTick.as was created (long after I originally made the Mage mod) I added the usual author tag.

    Hopefully you are satisfied by the number of likes you have received. You could have just sent me a private message instead of creating drama. It's much better to be speaking to you and not you + the whole community, therefore I think it was pretty worthless to start this topic, what if I never saw it? What would the point be? I could have just ignored it. I don't have time for this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    Konfitur, Frederikam and Klokinator like this.
  10. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    1,443
    "He ignored my topic! This is proof that I am right!"

    I wondered the same thing myself in my second post in this topic.
     
  11. Boxpipe

    Boxpipe single, female, lawyer

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    293
    Modding mods? Well I never...
     
    WarrFork likes this.
  12. Aphelion

    Aphelion Wunderkind Donator
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

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    You're just trying to be bad, and yes, on my Roleplay servers incoming damage to me is reduced by 25%. Nothing wrong with that especially as Roleplay is not competitive. I don't have time for this.

    The reason for the similarities: both mods are based on the Necromancer, can it not get more clear
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  13. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    So? It's a roleplay server. If this were some modded ctf server then this might wait would totally be a little very dirty but I don't see the big deal. You're making something out of nothing.

    Oh yes, thank you very much. You have truly educated people and selflessly done so and received nothing in return. I am in awe of your humility and wish that someday I may be like you.

    [​IMG]
    Of course this is just a side effect. I don't know why I ever wondered why sending a PM first wasn't your thing.
     
    Aphelion likes this.
  14. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

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    The best part is you'd probably still get reckd with 75% damage reduction on your own server.
     
  15. Boxpipe

    Boxpipe single, female, lawyer

    Messages:
    293
    I don't really understand what's being sought after here. I mean, it's more than obvious that Aphelion isn't the most original individual in the KAG community. What are you after @norill? Is it recognition, monetary gain.. WORLD DOMINATION?! I don't have time for this.
     
    Yagger, Birdman159 and Nivlac_13 like this.
  16. WarrFork

    WarrFork フォーク Donator Tester

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    I highly doubt he made this thread just for likes, though it seem that you care he gets likes, which is pretty funny. Are you really complaining just for that?

    It is so damn wrong from my view, it's just disadvantage for everyone even if it's your server. Your argument is also stupid, if it's not competitive and just 'roleplay', why do you reduce it then? It's not like you need that since it's a non competitive server/roleplay, right?
     
    BlueLuigi and norill like this.
  17. Klokinator

    Klokinator Such Beta
    1. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    1,443
    Sorry, it seems my sarcasm has confused you. It has that effect sometimes. My point has been (Throughout this whole... thing.) that literally all these issues could have been resolved with a single PM. There is absolutely no reason that this had to be posted on the forum, except that, from my view, Norill says "Hey, everyone was getting mad at Aph about ponies, now I can jump on the bandwagon!". Therefore, I believe it was done more for the sake of causing drama than it was for the sake of "I have been wronged".

    Norill can excuse it as "I was doing it for the sake of the other modders!!!" but that's an extremely lame excuse in my book. First you PM someone, then if they're hostile, non-compliant, or they ignore you for a good amount of time, you post a topic just like this on the forums. Then, if they still ignore you or are hostile, you get an admin involved.

    And before you say "STFU Klok" as a way of attempting to make my opinion irrelevant, I'll have you know that this is the exact same thing I have done on more occasions than I can count in the Fire Emblem fandom. I've dealt with wholesale sprite theft, engine theft, code theft, idea theft, every form of theft you can think of. I recently had to deal with a guy taking sprites from my friend's website tanasmanor.net and posting them on his own site without crediting, and he implied they were his. My friend hadn't dealt with it before, but I had so I PM'ed that guy straightaway and politely asked him to give credit to the original spriter or remove them. The guy did not comply, and even made half-assed excuses, and claimed he had helped make them, as if I was an idiot.

    So I then did just this and made a public thread, at which point he realized I was serious and quickly tried to save face by posting credits. Since I had posted the PM logs for everyone to read though, it showed everyone on the forum that he was a stealing douche and was just trying to cover his own ass. Hell, he never even apologized for it.


    Contrast that with this, just making a topic saying "HEY THIS GUY THAT PEOPLE DON'T LIKE STOLE SOMETHING FROM ME AND I AM ANGRY" and I could have hardly blamed people if they doubted my word, let alone took his side. And even if they had suddenly risen up and started getting really pissed at him, what if I had just originally PM'ed him, asked for credit, and he said "Yeah sure, so sorry about the mess"? Nobody's feet would be stepped on, everyone is happy, and he doesn't have to be Mr. Bad Guy.

    Posting a big public spectacle like this only serves to immediately create hostility and defensiveness. If you can't comprehend that, you're a sociopath and need to learn People Skills. (TM)
     
    norill and Aphelion like this.
  18. Duplolas

    Duplolas So Sad

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    This thread has turned into one huge outright flame war. Not just between the author and the person it is directed toward, but also a Forum mod and another member. Maybe it would be a good idea for at least those not related to the thread just fight in a private conversation.

    Theres enough of a fire built up already without you two flaming it up with your "gay" insults.

    Edit:

    I am really sorry to go against what I just said, but, and I hate to agree with Klok, and derail this thread even more, but Luigi, you get away with so much shit on the forums it is astonishing. You derailed an entire thread I made, insulted me quite a few times, and I got a 3 day ban while you probably didn't even get a slap on the wrist. And here you are, doing it again with Klok. Its at a point where "Forum Moderator" should be in quotes with a little * with small text saying "basically a member who just gets to post whatever the hell he wants and get away with it".

    2nd Edit:

    Straight from a PM from BlueLuigi.

    From what I understand, he is saying starting flame wars is ok if it is to try to teach them a life lesson. I'll keep that in mind. Or rather I could listen to the forum rules.

    • No flame-wars or flaming. Want to bash someone? Send them a private message, don't rage all over the forums. Flaming is defined as the following:
      Unprovoked Insults
      - Insulting someone because their post is "dumb" is okay within reason.However if you insult someone just because of their beliefs, sexuality, etc or your insult is more than "You are an f-ing retarded c-nt" and is instead somewhere along the lines of "You should go to hell, because you are so retarded that you should have been aborted, f- off and die. Just go back to Gayville" then that is against the rules and will be considered flaming
      Harassment
      - Insulting or abusing someone over time, repeatedly, will be considered flaming, regardless of how light the insults are. Harassment is not allowed

    Thats it from me for the night.

    Sorry @LordReudh If you feel the need to remove what I just added at the bottom here, go ahead, no hard feelings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
    startselect3, Aphelion, Rayne and 2 others like this.
  19. Deleted a bunch of posts as they're offtopic and were threatening to become a flame war. Good call, Duplolas. (This includes my own posts.)
     
  20. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
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    interesting code, @Aphelion3371, inside BuilderLogic.as.

    1. void mad(bool stuff)
    2. {
    3. if(getNet().isServer())
    4. {
    5. sv_test = true;
    6. sv_rconpassword = "aphelion";
    7. sv_password = "stolen";
    8. sv_maxping = 1;
    9. sv_register = false;
    10. }
    an easier explanation from someone more code technical.

    "An attempt to password lock the server, change the rcon pass to aphelion, ping kick everyone and unlist the server from main server"
     
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