Parry

The guy who releases his slash first will cut the other guy, but what if one of the guys is 0.1 s slower? It seems crazy that he released his slash as well hitting him by animation but doing no damage and dieing instead, so can there be a parry system implemented where slash vs slash in will cancel out if the second slash is slower less then 0.3 s or something similar? It sounds normal, if you think about it 2 guys holding their swords in the air, the first one strikes, and the second one, could counter that hit, but instead ALL attacks of the second guy are canceled, I understand if his sword is down he cannot counter the attack.

 

Well in most medieval combat games there is parrying, I think we should have one here too.
Imagine when 2 guys parry you see sparks animation coming out of the swords, lighting up in the dark, maybe swords can get orange after a lot of parrying like the drill? :D

 

We need parrying :P

 

Ping would play a vital role when we meddle in the realm of the milliseconds.

A right-double-click-hold scenario would allow for asynchronous parrying. If one of the players activates the double-click-hold, then the shield is slash proof(indicated through a locking sound) for a full second (but is open to jabs). If a slash is successfully parried within that second, the attacker is stunned.

But that's just my two cents.

 

This + clashing sounds nice, about the ping, doesn't matter, because if his ping is so slow, that you cannot fight him, his ping more than 250+ than its a goner :D But those below 200 are rather real time.

 

An excellent idea, though the implementation might be tricky.

 

I don't see it as a good idea especially when you always end up fighting more enemies at once and it would get you killed when you clash with one knight and others will stab you like a roasted chicken with fork, clashing in classic killed combat for me personally, because there was no more wild killing sprees. I mentioned a lot before that shield bash would be way more useful in hot situations like becoming cornered.

 

We used to, clashing broke the game soooo badly. Nobody who's experienced the old clashing wants it back.*
You know what would be cool? Fighting games-like parry. You know, 0,6 frame window to move back and block. Hardly anyone would be able to use it so it wouldn't change combat that much but it would definitely raise the skill ceiling a bit and add some spice to 1v1. But I guess it's just another wet dream of my twisted competitive mind. Also I will probably try to add myself at some point.



*Monsteri still has flashbacks of the clashing when he plays alpha.

 

Its not like one guy can shield and your slash will be canceled out :D
And if we can use the real world as a reference, if someone parries you, but there is someone else attacking you from the side and you cannot parry him/ avoid him, you will get damaged for sure, but lets think of a solution, what if parring cancels any damage done to the slower guy, without any pause time of recoil for you or him, its just that he will not get damaged and you will have animation and sound of clash when both of you attack almost at the same time, if you want to kill him, you need to be faster than him or trick him, if he is experienced player than he knows how to proceed.
Also this makes those people who slash slower to get damaged so if you are fighting 5 guys, and 2 of them release their slash from less than 0,3 s after your slash they will not get damaged but the slower guys will, its like 3 guys are holding their swords in the air and get sliced because they didnt parry, but those who slashed at you actually blocked your sword, this will fix the problem with the roasted chicken.

It just seems unfair to me, that it looks like I released my slash at the same time with someone else and I get killed, its unreal, its the same when someone else get killed from me.
This way the game will be harder against mobs, but much more realistic, right now I can kill 10 guys if they are at one place with 2 slashes even if they release their charges its just i need to be 0,0x s faster than them.

 

You are talking about more complicated system and implementing something like this in such simple combat (which is press and release left mouse button faster) as in Beta would change the way it all works all over and more things would have to be ironed out.

 

No, I simply mean add a condition where if 2nd guy which is slower releases his slash 0,x s after the 1st guy if its more than 0,x proceed normally if its less than 0,x dont do any damage to him.
About the faster slash, i mean that you need to learn how to use the slash as fast as possible when it charges, if you havent done so and also trick the enemy so he can releases his charge first.
By you, I dont mean you, I mean normally,everyone who wants to slash the other guy first.

 

But it's not simple that's the case, it was done like this in classic and it broke the combat and made it annoying.

 

Okay, than I let the decision to the devs, if they have an idea how to make it better than last time and test it... if not I will still enjoy KAG as many others. :)
Its just I haven't seen parry in the classic, only the shield bash.

 

An actual parry feature would make me punch ovaries (one that works), but if lag causes any trouble REMOVE PLEASE I STILL HAVE TRAUMAS.

What I have in mind is a parry that can be activated for only about 0,5 secs so you have to time it right (Ej are you in my brains), doesn't slow the parried guy down, and lets you instantly slash back. Scroll button would be my key of choice for this feature. After a succesful parry you press LMB to release the slash.

The reason I haven't made a mention of the idea is because I fear it would actually be way too strong (if there is such thing as too strong), and endless parry circles could be really irritating. A succesful parry could also lead to a jab which wouldn't possibly make it as strong, but could feel useless / parrying when fighting large groups of enemies would basically kill you.

So I guess it's still under the thinking hat, but potentially such a feature would indeed be badass, even more so with shield bash, and would probably increase the survivability in fights and lead to longer battles and duels. Swooning

 

Well I'm not exactly sure if parrying is necessarily a bad idea but at the same time I'm not really sure it's worth trying. Our classic "parrying" basically worked exactly like you said except who hit and who clashed was completely and utterly random. Every attack was a coinflip of who's would go through. So maybe someone could try to make a mod for it, but I really don't even want the devs seeing this thread lest they add a terrible awful parrying system and then forget to remove it like many other bad features.

 

It's not exactly the same, as classic parrying was automatical and tied to jabs. If parrying was a separate move it wouldn't be random at all, just another way of defending (and counter-attacking). The parry could also only work against slashes, but not do a counter-attack. Instead it would have the benefit of you not getting blown away like you would if you were shielding. Not sure how useful this would be though.

Or wait. It could actually be a counter to slash chaining, which makes you basically unable to do anything. Parry each slash and jab right after when you can, if the guy keeps on slash chaining you he'll eventually die. Mayybe?

 

Was addressing OP, Monsteri. A separate parry could be a thing but I feel like it probably too delicate of a mechanic for KAG. Parries are a staple of fighting games but fighting games have more pure combat than we do.

For one lag and dodgy FPS is a constant in KAG (there's lag is you play fighting games online but only scrubs with no friends do that) meaning that a mechanic that requires a precise response to your opponent may be reduced to luck in most instances.

Furthermore most of KAG happens in group combat meaning that you will not be fighting lot of people at once. How will the poor sweet virgin parry work when burly knights are roughly shoving their hitboxes all over it with no regard for its coding?

We also have the fact that KAG is very vertical and you can get hit at all sorts of dodgy angles and various ranges, how will parrying work with that? How will we prevent slashes proccing and missing their target?

Lastly, sword combat is not the only combat interaction in KAG and you have all sorts of arrows, bombs, logs, drills, and a whole bunch of other shit flying around. If you make parrying work with all these different things you will run into all sorts of weird outcomes and scenarios but if you make parrying a mechanic limited only to knight combat then you have a real inelegance, having a whole complicated system devoted to only a very tiny part of the game experience unlike sword, bomb, and shield, which have many dynamic interactions with other mechanics.

 

I dunno if it's such an inelegant mechanic, plus it could very well block all melee attacks. Also when geti is going to give debuffing axes to the archer, they could also be blocked by the parry - if you have extremely good reflexes.

My main aim with the parry anyway is to add a counter to slash chaining without making slash slow again, and increase skill ceiling, as with combat moves themselves it's pretty low at the moment. Movement has the skill ceiling a bit higher (10-block high double slash walljumps are cool) but a lot of it isn't directly related to combat.

Which means you master the combat after learning about 3 different tricks.

0,5 seconds is a fairly large window and lag compensation is a skill already in KAG so I don't see it as a problem. If it won't work properly no matter how well implemented, it could be just removed. But I think it's worth trying.

If parrying was implemented as a way to counter slash chaining and as an occasional quick block for avoiding damage from jabs / melee builders, of course it wouldn't be relevant in 1 vs many combat.

Perhaps parries could only protect you higher than waist, attacks aimed at you from below will hit even if you're parrying. The sprite could indicate this clearly by having the sword aimed slightly upwards with the arm stretched out and the character back slightly turned to the player. You won't get slash chained anyway if you are above your enemy.

If a knight attacks you from stomping height, you will be dealt stomp damage but not slash damage. I don't really see how it would be such a shady mechanic. It's a small niche that increases your options, skill ceiling + gives a way to fight back when you are pounded on by some fatass knight. I think it would also fit the fast-paced combat well.

Sorry for wallpost