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POLL: Male vs Female Player count

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by BindNation, Aug 15, 2016.

?

Are you a male or female KAG player? (In IRL, not just in-game)

  1. Male

  2. Female

Results are only viewable after voting.
Mods: BlueLuigi
  1. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    a bit of both, lets be honest here.
     
    bunnie, norill, jimmyzoudcba and 6 others like this.
  2. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

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    289
    True, I'm definitely both.
     
    norill likes this.
  3. JaytleBee

    JaytleBee Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. [Server] Sandbox Reborn

    Messages:
    117
    Wtf no, do you think I'm some kind of weirdo?


    I have no patience whatsoever.
     
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    I don't think I've been much angrier from any game than after a long afternoon of playing KAG; and I played CS in high school :)

    I said "your entire catalogue" for a reason. Big companies generally don't just have one game. There are 2 major schools of thought, both fairly valid, about ways to approach the split.

    One is to make everything "ok for everyone", like you seem to think I'm arguing. I'm not convinced this is a good global solution - as your game gets bigger and your audience gets broader, then maybe, but for many games it's not really an option.

    One thing that I do think this group is right about is on the whole avoiding reinforcing systematic biases and normalising problematic behaviour. Note that this isn't about removing all depictions of those things or censorship, but more that developers, as authors and artists need to consider the societal impact that their work will have. Biggest obvious example of this is maybe giving the skimpy lady armour a rest.

    The other school of thought's suggested approach is to target more groups individually. I think this is the more realistic way forward in the short term, but of course it has its limitations. This is what's historically kept the gender split going towards 50%, and has swept up all the players that have "aged out" of twitch shooters, mobas and other fast competitive games.

    To give a non-gendered example, world of tanks (and warships and so on) is quite popular with older men, both because of its historical slant and because the action is slower and more strategic, where planning generally beats immediate twitch skill. Mechwarrior Online and the upcoming Battletech game do the same thing in harnessing the nostalgia of some older wargaming players, combining it with a slower paced, team based game where one player can't simply out-skill the others, and attracts a different player base as a result. The former is going against some of this (lower time to kill, faster rounds, more single player weighting) and floundering a little as many of the older (richer, more likely to spend) players are unhappy with that direction.

    These games target groups that would otherwise be under-catered to and do quite well as a result. I think more games could do this with women with great success in the short term. For the cynics of you, King (candy crush devs) and PopCap (bejeweled) have had a strong foothold in those markets for a long time.

    Of course, I'd rather devs do it with the aim of getting more people playing and enjoying games, rather see more lady devs telling their own stories, more diversity in general, and all of that good stuff - but even in the cynical sad short term there's so much more we can do to cater to everyone, and a lot of money to motivate that.

    As I've gone into above, it's not necessarily about just making it "more equal". The proliferation of male-targetted dating sim games is essentially a gendered retargetting of romance novels to young men - this of course has its own problems, but I think you're wrong to keep using that as an example.
    OTOH, Bethesda and Bioware have definitely made quite a lot of money making Elder Scrolls, Fallout and Dragon Age friendly to all players. Those games have large fem followings - and to tie into your "romance novel" theme, huge fanfic communities as well.

    It's all well and good to say something is "stupid" when you're in the group that's catered to so well.


    All good, it's just always disappointing reading these threads.
     
  5. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

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    289
    Heh, Geti quoted one of my posts - now I've just gotta get a Like from him and I can die happy. o3o
     
  6. BindNation

    BindNation Bison Rider

    Messages:
    165
    Didn't realize how heated this thread could get people. I was legit just interested in the demographics lol
     
    an_obamanation likes this.
  7. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

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    1,275
    same counterslashing gives me rage.

    If girls dont play games because of a skimpy lady armour character then frankly im glad they dont. Grow a thicker skin or gtfo. This is the same thing with the "old boy's club" comment where i assumed you were talking about women being herded out. When you really meant that you were happy that girls were able to somehow survive in our circlejerk toxic environment(atleast i read it as that way). Diversity means nothing to me personally you dont have to have conservatively clothed characters to make it accepting of everyone(games will still be successful eitherway and it being "problematic" is just stupid imo).
    >check your privilege

    Took you long enough for that.
    I mean......what. I dont exactly see the issue here. It just makes sense to me that if a company is catering to a group then they should continue until it is less profitable to do that. As for the problematic stuff, what exactly is problematic? Catering towards perverted boys with 1/2 naked girls? Then is the entire adult "film" industry problematic? Or is the issue that all the popular games or cool games are "made for boys"? Anyone playing games has to have thick skin and if a skimpy little armor chick makes a girl not want to play that game then fine good riddance. I generally dont care how any character is dressed in future games but changing old games or altering them to fit a new market is stupid imo(and probably disrespectful to the fanbase). I see no point in changing, say, the women in mortal combat to make it less "problematic" though i wouldnt give a crap about someone making a non-problematic game. I just dont see the need for changing what already exists so im probably in favor of the second school of thought. Think about it to make the adult film industry more even you wouldnt change the content for males youd just make better female content(sorry for the adult film industry analogies but it just fits better than anything else i could think of. I think i just confused your issues with gender biases and stereotypes as wanting to change things instead of making more "appealing" content to women. I got this out of context more than an assumption though(your defense of linkle ect.)
     
    Yagger and BindNation like this.
  8. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Enjoy

    I wouldn't call it particularly heated; as I said to @asger75, I'm just disappointed, not angry. The demographics are are interesting topic, both for KAG and for games at large.

    I disagree very strongly with this stance. It's imo pretty crappy to just expect to be mean to each other. The whole point of games is simply to have fun. I think a lot of people forget that, particularly when it comes to competitive game.

    I meant that it's particularly unwelcoming for girls - I'm not happy at all that the current environment exists, but I am happy to see at least some female presence in the playerbase.

    You should. It's not that hard to be sympathetic if you can't manage empathy.

    This is probably why our views differ.

    There's a pretty wide spectrum between sex positive feminist porn, amateur stuff made on someone's phone, and "Facefuckers 2: The Re-blowening: Electric Deepthroat (EXTENDED MILF EDITION)". There's a lot of "problematic" porn out there, selling 2 bit power fantasies to teens. Both sides get harmed to some extent by this.

    I don't agree at all with the "BAN IT" sentiment you get from some, but I think that there's a middle ground. Same goes for the current approach to games. It bears talking about. Like anything political though, many people seem strongly opposed to even giving an inch of their position away.

    These are nuanced issues, and it's almost as if any absolute position isn't going to suit everyone... Strange thing, that.
     
  9. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

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    777
    I love this thread
     
  10. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

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    1,275
    that quote+ your profile picture.
    It's just how the world is. Like if i said be careful if youre heading into a bad neighborhood, the internet is a very unfriendly place at times. Difference is words for alot of people on the internet are pretty meaningless. I remember listening to a good analogy towards this topic actually. The person was explaining how words didnt hurt and he didnt care if you flung insults at him. He'd have a snowball fight if he was in the mood but the ice hitting him is alittle annoying, but please do not throw rocks at me that hurts. We learn at a young age that "sticks and stones make break my bones but words will never hurt me" but for some reason as time goes on words are harming people more and more. Being able to ignore insults and control your emotions is a good thing and i feel like that is something you should value.
    What. I thought we literally already established that it was just a toxic place for everyone regardless of genitals?

    Unless youre pushing forward the idea that woman feelz makes it harder for them to survive the toxic cesspool that is internet gaming then i think we can both agree it is just a fucked up place in general.
    I can certainly be sympathetic if something bad is happening to someone and i see it. But that isnt what is going on here im talking to you about something and youre saying it is bad because there arent any woman protagonists in video games and i should be for that even though i personally do not care about the gender of my character. Im not gonna be against something just because someone with my own "privilege" tells me i should.

    I dont give a single individual fuck towards diversity of gender with the way crap goes down in my country. We have a democratic president pandering to abunch of idiots saying"women deserve to be paid more than 77% of a man" while quoting a bogus stat. We have people pandering saying we need more women in office when women are the majority voting. There's all this invisible oppression and frankly it has turned me off of the idea of needing "diversity". That doesnt mean i give a single fuck about the genitals of the person im playing or who im playing with, it just means i dont like the idea of "for diversity's sake".
    Hey remember when they said that violent video games were harmful and that was proven wrong. Hey remember when they said porn was problematic but rape went down since it became a viable market. Hey remember when people complained about pokemon go dehumanizing dog-fighting. And people wonder why others are so insensitive towards the word "problematic". Im all for talking about it aswell just dont get irritated with me if i become irritated at buzzwords because im human(i can make mistakes too and can make links and get overly offended at innocent links).
     
  11. joshua12131415

    joshua12131415 Bison Rider Tester

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    190
    I have lost track of what they are arguing about now, maybe they will just keep going until someone wins?
     
  12. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Nobody really wins these, and punk will pretty much keep going until geti decides he doesn't want to keep talking about it anymore.

    Edit: And that's fine. Didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. I wouldn't have participated otherwise

    That doesn't mean every aspect of the world has to be like that, it's not necessarily unchangable. What is the point in resisting change to negative aspects of a climate? Why would you be legitimately upset with people who don't like that climate and make an effort to change it?

    It's true that someone's gender doesn't really matter when you're playing videogames with them, but changes you see as being only "for the sake of diversity" aren't (or at least shouldn't be) only about getting to a specific gender ratio. It's more like, part of the reason there's a lack of diversity is because certain groups of people are being turned away. Even if you don't value diversity, it's still sad that your community is being unwelcoming to anyone.

    Like, I get turned off when I see a game filled only with jiggly titmonster female characters, but there are probably more girls that can't stand that than there are guys.

    It just seems pretty easy to still have fun while not being unwelcoming, is all. So why is there such violent opposition to that idea?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
    bunnie and Blue_Tiger like this.
  13. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    That's exactly how a discussion works you call the other person an incessant troll so you can make an excuse to not take him seriously("why am i even responding to this""he'll just keep talking until we stop" then stop no one is forcing a response out of anyone)
    Trying to convince jackasses not to be jackasses is literally impossible. Try talking sense into copper40(or any future version of him). Hell atm we are all dealing with the biggest prick in kag history right now(the ddoser) and i know that atm there is no way to stop him. Im not legitmately upset at anyone i just think whining about how a product does not fit your ideal, or about a feature in the game, is not productive and wont accomplish anything(and tbh shouldnt be accomplished). If you want to make something better or support something that you think is better then go for it but dont try to get a successful product, with a fanbase, changed to accomplish your goals. This is also an issue with non-creators trying to censor or change someone elses creation(not saying anyone here is in favor of that but it is a valid point).

    Right. Like part of the women in America are being turned away from STEM even with being prioritized in colleges and having more scholarships? You arent discriminated against just because abunch of people like you do not enjoy an activity. Anyway im sure there are some games like you describe but that is because there is a market for that.

    Nothing is wrong with being welcoming, but since when is trying to have already existing characters changed welcoming to anyone in your fanbase? Again im not against any P.C fun games or "Un-problematic" type fun but im certainly not in favor of changing anything already created.
    i remember when someone made a thread like this about age years ago. Dont remember it much tho.
     
    Yagger likes this.
  14. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    289
    *Internally screaming from multiple emotions*

    Cheers brah. :v
     
  15. Furai

    Furai THD Team THD Team Administrator

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    3,124
    I haven't decided what gender I am, yet. Don't impose it on me.
     
  16. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    289
    I just assumed you identified as an Almond & White Chocolate cookie.
     
  17. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

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    Introducing females into a video game as tightly dressed, show too much skin type characters continues to reinforce gender stereotypes and sexual representations. It is not simply a fact of "grow thicker skin".

    Continuing to introduce the characters like this affects the image of a real world girl. Even though it is in a video game, females are then expected to wear or act like their video game counterparts in real life. This will just continue to reinforce the gender gap.

    If every female in a video game was represented like that, shouldn't we as males be represented as bloody thirsty masochists with by muscles and guns?

    TL:DR it shouldn't be a thicker skin issue.
     
    bunnie and Blue_Tiger like this.
  18. Turtlebutt

    Turtlebutt Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    60
    maybe apache helicopter?
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  19. Achillios

    Achillios Pilgrim
    1. Gather Oceania

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    156
    Did you just assume my gender? (I'm back in business, more kag needs to be played).
     
  20. joshua12131415

    joshua12131415 Bison Rider Tester

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    190
    Furai is a cookie monster, he lives, breaths, sleeps, and prays to the king of cookies. If he had feelings for a hooman, that would be an offense to act 669 of the cookian code:
    Therefore Furai is neither male nor female, but a cookarian.
    if normal people are straight, then what are homo people? Bent? Curved? Wavy????
     
    enderzilla747 likes this.
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