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[Rant] Game Balance And The Community

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Trumbles, Aug 31, 2015.

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  1. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    This has actually been done in several instances. It just has to be a change that is compatible with pug KAG as it stands and not have any huge glaring issues (in both code and design).

    Take "Rafts" for example - this kind of thing is fine in a roleplay setting, but we removed them from the standard game deliberately because they were simply not useful. If the game was much slower paced, water was significantly more debilitating, resources were more expendable, and crafting wasn't an unnecessary distraction from the fast-paced mayhem of the game, then sure, a boat "worse than the dinghy" would maybe be relevant.

    As it stands, adding rafts just creates content clutter, and draws serious questions about what we're encouraging players to do.
     
    J-man2003, _Cuffs_ and Dargona1018 like this.
  2. swiggityswooty

    swiggityswooty Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    58
    was gonna reply to people but everyone is so wrong about everything in their own way there's no point
    please never change the game because of threads like this @Geti
     
  3. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Here is my take on balancing the game:
    -Water arrows stack to 1 instead of 2
    -bomb arrows more expensive
    -No spawning at ballistas (This feature just makes ballistas too op)
    -Don't change jabs, drills and tunnelings, there is literally nothing wrong with them, I don't get why everyone keeps complaining. Sure a noob might kill you sometimes with the work of jabs SO WHAT, slashes are way better and jab spamming is just another way to play. Also tunneling is easily stopped already and its a good way to end stalemates.
    -Better pickup priorities. This one gets too me a lot, a lot of garbage is on the ground and one crucial item you must pickup, picks up everything but the crucial item.
    Pickup priorities must be different for every class, for example for knights first thing is bomb but not lit bombs cause i hate when i accidentally pick up lit bombs and die, also as an archer, arrows must not be high as pickup priorities. If i need arrows I will walk over them ( I don't mean special arrows but just normal arrows).
     
  4. Theodore433

    Theodore433 Arsonist

    Messages:
    24
    This may be a tad meta and/or off-topic, but this is what keeps going through my mind reading this and related threads. This is by no means a denouncement, rant, etc. Just some thoughts, as per my usual sporadic and aloof posts:

    Having grown up in the early / mid 90s with games from that time and earlier, it is amazing to how much has changed in terms of development expectations on the part of the player communities, at least from my point of view in the midst of it. We have gone from devs making games as singular pieces of interactive art (most of the time in mainstream retail, that is) to devs supporting games in a continuous cycle with the advent of widespread internet connectivity, its associated forum communities, and the phenomenon of crowdfunding. While clear communication with the gamemakers / developers as people is marvelous, I feel as if clear communication with the game makers / developers as artists is not so marvelous.

    I am aware that with increasing connectivity comes more and more complex degrees of community interaction, some people existing more as a community member than as a player, for instance, and that all these things are an inevitable part of games growing as an artistic format, but I can't help but feel that we are missing out on something that I remember feeling when I was younger. The feeling of playing a game as an artform, or modding it together as players is quite different than playing a game as a piece of software to be modified by the creators at our suggestion. This is a topic some folks have touched on repeatedly in some form or another, explicitly or obliquely, in several threads thus far, but I think, in the kindest manner possible, it is important to stress to folks that devs are people as well as artists, and that sticking to a completed piece of art and its interaction and criticism on an interconnected scale of vast proportions for any length of time is a very difficult task indeed. Especially so considering this phenomenon is relatively new (<20yrs) to the scene of games as an artform. Ask anyone working in visual media, music (myself, for instance), or any other field, and I think you will find that normal workflows involve moving onward and upward, learning from every creation as a mistake as well as a success (if not completely forgetting it altogether in favor of the future), and honing the skills you are developing within your craft. It is marvelously natural, and nothing to be afraid of as an outside observer.

    I think it is never inappropriate to throw suggestions about, any more than it has ever been so, but sometimes it is more rewarding (it is for me, certainly) to take a step back and enjoy the game as a game, and its modifications as modifications, exploring their collective nooks and quirks, and appreciating them for what they are.
     
  5. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Damn those are some fancy words, but I will agree with you here. I guess I too should stop ranting and just enjoy the game as it is.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  6. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    Personally I feel that the ballista deserves a mix between a nerf and a buff. I would love to see ballistas take 3 bomb arrows or one direct keg to break. I would also like to see ballistas no longer be able to spawn people if they are being capped. Lastly I feel that the gold required for bomb bolt tech should be increased to 100 gold, and extra bolts should cost 50 per magazine.
     
  7. CowboyDan

    CowboyDan Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator Tester

    Messages:
    146
    I think you should be able to spawn when its being capped, but not be invincible.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  8. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    It would still be op though, I mean why can you spawn there in the first place? It doesn't make sense.
     
    Verrazano likes this.
  9. CowboyDan

    CowboyDan Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator Tester

    Messages:
    146
    I think they would be way too easy to cap the other way. You shouldn't be able to take it that easily. If you had 3 people capping the ballista, they should be able to get the people spawning as long as their not invincible. Also, i think you should have to be on the ballista to cap it/ prevent it from being capped.
     
    PeggleFrank and J-man2003 like this.
  10. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    239
    About ballistas and spawning, maybe put a limit on the number of times that players can spawn on the ballista? For example, players could spawn on a ballista 10 times before the ballista can no longer be used as a spawn point. I have no idea how easy this would be to implement into the game. Moreover, I imagine that this would need extensive testing as it seems drastic of a change to how spawning on a ballista functions.
     
    Darknighte9 likes this.
  11. Dargona1018

    Dargona1018 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    569
    Seems needlessly complex and opaque mechanic that doesn't really bring anything positive to the table, imo.
     
    PeggleFrank and J-man2003 like this.
  12. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    So instead of them not spawning while a ballista is being capped they should instead be able to spawn but in turn would not be invincible. I can see that too, all I know is that ballistas are far more effective than they should be ,low gold cost for the shop and tech, low cost for 6 long ranged explosive shots. It's just an incredibly overpowered way of destroying the enemies base and it's not hard at all to get 60 bolts in the damn thing. One last thing that also might help and could be switched out for the bolt cost increase is making it so you don't get coins from ballista kills, or extremely reducing the amount you get for each kill.
     
  13. J-man2003

    J-man2003 Arsonist

    Messages:
    352
    Verra liked this now it's going in the game
     
  14. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    477
    mfw. actually yfw.
     
    J-man2003, PeggleFrank and PUNK123 like this.
  15. Obione5256

    Obione5256 Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    37
    I feel that players shouldn't be able to spawn while they're being capped. If you spawn the defenders without invincibility, they get spawn killed, and that's no fun. It's not too easy to take, because if a team is using the ballista to attack (as is its purpose) it will be pretty easy for the defenders team to reach it, and defend it. Plus, the defend range is pretty large, and defending can the ballista can be done through walls. The only situation where the defenders would have no chance of defending it then, would be if their whole team was wiped out, in which case that ballista deserves to be capped. And if it's in some obscure spot used for defending your base, the ballista should be easy to capture, to discourage defensive ballista death spam of death.

    Although, the best way to find out which is better would be testing. :wink:
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  16. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    Hello, in my scientific and completely reliable view I feel that adding fakerolling.as to every cfg file will make the game a better and more wholesome experience. If a spinning player, slashes at a spinning catapult, holding a spinning dinghy, that when launched breaks into a bunch of spinning boxes, which each hold a bunch of spinning burgers, which then tame a bunch of spinning bison, which then you can ride and spin around, then I believe no other player in KAG can complain about anything. They would be do overwhelmed by the majesty that is fakerolling.as that they will weep at the glorious audacity. Choirs of angels will appear and the gates of heaven shall henceforth be open because fakerolling.as would have been added to every cfg file.

    The Lord Prophet Messiah Geti Cahill said unto thee, if thy children desire fakerolling.as they must go forth and spread the word of fakerolling.as for the second coming is at hand. For if thy children are unprepared for the second coming then they shall find the doors to wonder and glorious bliss will be beyond them.

    IRC 3:6-10
     
    Magmus, CowboyDan, _Cuffs_ and 7 others like this.
  17. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    434
    Would like to post some maths
    12 bolts cost 60 coins, those are 6 explosives.
    Each explosive is as efffective as a keg by OPness/half of keg in damage.
    The shop costs 60 gold.
    You can easily gain it before start ^
    The ballista costs 150 gold, in end you need 250 wood, 60 gold and 150 coins.
    For 5 mins of fine gameplay you easily gain everything from this^
    The hardness of getting this is not harder then getting 240 coins on 2 kegs, while the ballista acts like a spawn point + can be aimed to anywhere, while costs 210 coins for 12 explosive bolts (like 6 kegs.)
    Including everything upper counted, nerf the ballista bolts cost and t he ballista cost/number of bolts per shot.
    Just the some moar maths:
    120 coins = 1 keg = 24 bolts (6 kegs actually).
    This means that the bolts should cost at same cost as kegs (a little less as you need to do the ballista first)
    1 keg = 2 bolts;=> 2 bolts = 120 coins.
    Including using normal bolts won't be effective then the quality of bolts used can be changed to 6 bolts per explosive bolt(while keeping same prices) to prevent the boltspam and make ballista less OP and better at attacking, not camping at tower with shitloads of money and bolts.
    TL;DR Increasese bolt cost or usage of bolts per explosive bolt
     
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  18. PeggleFrank

    PeggleFrank Base Burner

    Messages:
    125
    12 bolts cost 30 coins. The shop costs 50 gold. The upgrade costs 60 gold. You need 110 in total if you want to make a ballista. That's outright impossible on some maps, and difficult on others, though larger maps tend to have more gold on the sides of the map and ballista play is much easier because of it.

    Not trying to argue with you, just clearing some things up. Everything is actually much worse than you thought.
     
    CowboyDan likes this.
  19. Chrispin

    Chrispin KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    380
    Already doing all these things for KAG Reborn before you brought it up. You shouldn't be able to respawn at a weapon designed to be placed out in the open. That's just bad design. I made separate outpost/tunnel hybrids for that. I plan to give ballistas a bit more health, and you will be buying regular bolts and bomb bolts separately (obviously bomb bolts cost more).

    You might not completely agree with this, but I thought it needed a range nerf at high altitude. I gave bomb bolts a short timer. Now they explode before they travel any further than a ballista firing from the ground could reach. Say bye bye to unreachable sky ballistas


    My next project is revamping the way gold is used. This game is called King Arthur's GOLD, and it's pretty pathetic that nobody really fights for it. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a griefer throw the entire map's supply of gold into an endless pit without seeing the slightest bit of anger or annoyance among the victims.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    Noburu, makmoud98 and kedram like this.
  20. Fellere825

    Fellere825 KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    890
    Will it have fakerolling.as?
     
    Noburu, FuzzyBlueBaron, Geti and 3 others like this.
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