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ReBalance mod discussion

Discussion in 'Classes & Mechanics' started by Rayne, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    477
    Friendly for pubs, pubs don't want to care how many people are playing a class, they want to play the class they want to at any given time. Restricting when a class can be swapped to based on the number of players is not fun.
     
  2. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Pubs with arrows literally everywhere are not enjoyable and is 90% of the reason I don't play them.
     
  3. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Why don't you just play knight to shield / bomb the archers, or play builder and make shelter from the arrows? Or even just ask a builder for some shelter?

    Why should we change the game to remove situations in which one playstyle isn't as effective (thus restricting the game overall) when you can so easily change your tactics to shift things back in your favor?
     
    Noburu likes this.
  4. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Just keep in mind the whole point of this mod is explicitly pub-friendliness, not necessarily Blue_Tiger friendliness.
     
  5. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    I do, I am forced to either play knight or camp in an archer nest - that's why I don't play.

    Well, thought I'd share what would make pubs better :).
     
  6. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    439

    Reports by the archer:

    - The ideas I like : 1, 2, 5 Things of the classic? it will always be a YES!
    The water arrows who stops the bombs arrows is a very good idea that will also increase the use of the bucket! :)

    - The ideas I did not understand because my English sucks : 4,6 (I understood a bit)

    - The "Why not?" Ideas : 3,7

    - The ideas I do not like : No Here


    Reports by the Builder :

    - The ideas I like : 1,2,3,4,5 Good ideas! WOW, finally someone who thinks to improve buidler! :)
    The idea of the Axe is not too bad, it will add to the gameplay builder and more players will play it! :)

    - The ideas I did not understand because my English sucks : No Here

    - The "Why not?" Ideas : No Here

    - The ideas I do not like : No Here


    Reports by the Knight :

    - The ideas I like : No Here

    - The ideas I did not understand because my English sucks : 3

    - The "Why not?" Ideas : 1

    - The ideas I do not like : 2,4
    The bomb jump is a bad idea because too many people are accustomed to this bomb jump, and I find it already very good. But I need to test the bomb jump, that you wanted to set up.

    The history of the keg is to me a bad idea. Because the bomb Jump keg is widely used in Clan Wars. Hard to achieve because it is likely that the enemy succeed to catching the keg. And the keg is really fun, but maybe not for the pubs... (But if they use it ? ;p)

    Reports by the "General" :

    - The ideas I like : 2

    - The ideas I did not understand because my English sucks : 1

    - The "Why not?" Ideas : No Here

    - The ideas I do not like : 3
    Not the boulder is the only item that Instakill.
    OP Archer (I agree)
    But very difficult to play in the builder!
     
  7. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    Arrow spammers and campers are part of the game as Knight retreaters or rat builders, and that's not necessarily bad. If you want to play competitive only don't join pubs so often, because that's a different game.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  8. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    ftfy <3
     
    8x likes this.
  9. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    477
    It's more productive to look for ways to incentives certain types of play naturally than to just remove the ability to do it in the first place. Having a game that hard cap penalizes players for doing something that should be allowed is not good. It's better to have a flow that doesn't make a ton of pubs spamming as archers bad or not as fun, i.e. more fun things to do.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Noburu like this.
  10. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    yeah play Gather :>
     
    CowboyDan likes this.
  11. Chukka

    Chukka Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Zen - [Zen] - (Invite Only)
    2. Aphelion's Roleplay

    Messages:
    282
    Posting for the easy watch, keep up the good work.
     
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  12. rymcd

    rymcd Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    287
    I miss this mod
     
  13. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    It hasn't been that long :P
    skinney seems to have finished the bomb satchel thing, so maybe it'll start back up again
     
  14. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    dev has slowed down due to irl stuff with me, but you can still bug verra to make changes to the live server and test out new stuff.

    progress with the builder recode is actually great, I just need to find the time to fix up the net stuff and it'll pretty much be done.
     
  15. Chrispin

    Chrispin KAG Guard Tester

    Messages:
    380
    I will probably have lost all credibility I may have had for saying this, but what made builder an enjoyable class for me in Classic was the ability to easily place insurmountable walls in a matter of seconds, entomb, termite, all while generally being untouchable by combat classes. To top it off, builder had the ability to 1v1 a knight if they didn't carefully time a slash. The builder definitely had the most potential out of any class to change the outcome of a match. Could a team made entirely of builders win the match? Honestly I would say yea, but without that feeling that you were "cheating" or "exploiting" as a builder, it would otherwise be a very boring class.

    Builder v2 is not only worse in every category that he excelled at in Classic; every other class also became better at countering them. That is very evident when you observe:
    • clumsier block placement
    • wall running/jumping
    • archer's grapple
    • super destructive kegs
    • bomb arrows
    • explosive bolt ballistas
    • lower-damage pickaxe
    • less accurate pickaxe

    Now I'm not saying the above mechanics were bad additions, but I am saying that a builder buff is perfectly justified in order to make it a more enjoyable class. I know you all hate termites. There's no simple way to counter them except to enter your own wall through the same area that they did and patch up the damage that was done. That's why I suggest adding a new tool, which is basically a depth charge for the ground. It's a drill with a bomb attached to it that passes straight down through the map (without actually digging) and doesn't stop until it hits an enemy. OP against underground tunnel buildings?? You be the judge. IMO they should really be replaced by cheap (like 80-100 coin) outposts.
     
    Haste, NinjaCell, Vampire and 4 others like this.
  16. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    At least fix the goddamn pick-axe hit detection. It may just be one of the most broken things in the game atm, besides boulders.
     
  17. Jackard

    Jackard Base Burner

    Messages:
    852
    Either treat team trap blocks as doors for appropriate team, or bring back team platforms.

    Using standard rules where they are impassable, trap blocks are a liability to your team, often exploited by enemy builders as a defense.
     
  18. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    The axe was so much fun. I could really see myself playing builder after it gets the buffs. I didn't see a lot of people testing the mod, but damn did they sure fix the hit detection on the builder. You could finally destroy blocks without worrying about htting team shops. You were able to dig faster, chop a group of logs in one hit with an axe, and playing builder finally seemed fun again. Not only that, but the archer being able to crawl prone was an absolutely incredible feat! I laughed so hard at a lot of the new features in this mod and I really hope they can further develop it in the future.
     
  19. Anonymuse

    Anonymuse Arsonist

    Messages:
    443
    Wow, all of those things sound fantastic, someone implement some of the features (please fix pickaxe targeting please) in the official builds.
     
    Haste, Noburu, kodysch and 2 others like this.
  20. Haste

    Haste Bison Rider

    Messages:
    69
    Indeed, if the builder was butter like in classic i would be more inclined to actually play the real game.
    At this point i still feel like most of my actions are very random/ lack finesse. Where as ill jump into a game of classic, everything is so smooth in terms of how you move around, how deliberately you are in your movement was an important asset to kag.

    I feel like the wall running/ block placement properties discourage people from playing builder because its so hard to actually do the things you want im a timely manner without jumping about or falling off an edge.
    I guess its a combination of not having team bridges, ladders being weird (for me, imo, specially when you lag input = null and you fall through them all the dang time) , wall running, jumping in general, and block placement/ that one glitch that prevents you from building quickly, the one that removes the block from your hand for a little bit then comes back after you swirl your mouse or try to place a block 543 times (so annoying).
     
    Chrispin likes this.