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ReBalance mod discussion

Discussion in 'Classes & Mechanics' started by Rayne, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    If you want to keg drop from your tower, it's still possible, you just need to time the fuse to do it. This makes it much more preventable, but with good building I could see it being easy to pull off still. At least give it a try, I'll be organizing a test match after we get some more feedback on the current list of changes.
     
  2. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    477
    Remember Rayne doesn't care about competitive. The point of this mod is to help the community grow by making it more enjoyable all around. Kegs cause a lot of stale mates when dropped from the top of a tower to stop a huge would be victory charge. The problem is not using them offensively but defensively. Unfortunately making them less effective for defense means less effective for offensive. However remember the change suggested; Kegs do not explode when falling from a high distance. This does not prevent you from dropping a keg during bomb jump it just means you have to time it correctly potentially having to light the keg right before you depart.
     
    BlueLuigi, FuzzyBlueBaron and Noburu like this.
  3. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Make it logs, there are always too many logs sitting around being annoying.

    Everything on that list is amazing, but I think bomb arrows should be 35 or 40 coins, it would get kinda spammy. Also it might be funny for arrows to convert to bomb arrows midair if they collide with a bomb.

    No, keg drops are easy and devastating in pubs. They'd still be possible after the changes, you'd just have to time it.

    I do agree with you on them being too hard to carry though, I think it should be reverted back to when you'd have to kill the carrier to make them drop it. The only problem with that was that you'd often kill the keg before the person, causing instant detonation. That could be fixed by making kegs only take 1/4 or some other fraction of damage when being carried. If that would make suicide kegging too strong, then fire/bomb arrow interaction with carried kegs causing premature detonation might fix it.
     
    BlueLuigi and Rayne like this.
  4. BucketEmpty

    BucketEmpty Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    35
    I'd actually have to agree with his point about the keg dropping, I don't think it should be removed either. The keg is one the best/worst/fun/scary items in the game, it gets people excited is what I'm trying to say. As an archer I will do anything it takes to get that keg out of there unless I'm carrying a lot of b-arrows. As it stands, it's really easy to stop a keg from going off, and I think that's really cool, but if a team brings lots of cover in the form of knights and archers to secure that keg, then cool, they deserve to destroy your base :wink:

    Keg dropping is pretty damn good and effective, but it can be stopped in most cases, like some of my most badass moments were shooting a :water_arrow:at the knight soaring through the sky. I shot him with it, the keg dropped and destroyed their base. Or other times where I shot myself into the sky with the knight and as the knight dropped the keg I gladly intercepted it and flinged it towards the enemy base, these things are so exciting, really makes the plays happen and fun to be had. :rollseyes:

    Just my thoughts tho!

    Also @Rayne , you're a bro for putting the deflect arrow bomb thingy on the list :thumbs_up:
     
    Blue_Tiger and TheDirtySwine like this.
  5. Verrazano

    Verrazano Flat Chested Haggy Old Souless Witchy Witch Witch THD Team Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester
    1. Practitioners of War Extreme Revolution - POWER

    Messages:
    477
    That's pure gold.

    Bucket, I still think all those badass moments are possible with kegs, it just means you have to be more intentional with your timing, if you mess it up you blow-up your base instead of just dropping it and blowing everyone up, you have to time it correctly. The purpose is to prevent one keg from being the end of a glorious charge. It gives the charge a better chance at survival. You can still dispatch them, it just takes more skill to use it defensively.
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  6. amuffinattack

    amuffinattack Bison Rider

    Messages:
    128
    All these things are possible. Kegs are being changed only in the fact that a light keg will NOT explode on impact. The kegs will be exactly the same in every way except it won't instantly explode without the timer fulling finishing.
     
    BlueLuigi likes this.
  7. TheDirtySwine

    TheDirtySwine Bison Rider Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    818
    I don't understand why it's that difficult to catch kegs before they hit the ground. Sure you can light a keg and try and time it but doing that with bombs for a jump is extremely difficult. There is only one trick I know that can make kegs uncatchable and explode on impact and if that was removed I'd be ok with that, but almost all keg jumps that are used against an incoming wave of enemies can be caught. I understand that it may be frustrating if a bunch of people died to a keg but if the player is skilled enough they will try to catch it.
     
  8. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Pubs can't catch kegs. Even competitive players have trouble catching kegs. The whole idea here is that we remove the things that are frustrating in pub matches.
     
  9. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,276
    Its a modded server so a lot of pub's wont play?
     
  10. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    NB: started writing this post Sat, but got called away before could post.

    Initial changes seem good. Wonderful to have you back and tinkering with things, Rayne; where you been these months past? :heart:

    re:
    1) Bomb arrows deal 3 hearts of damage on a player.
    >No. Getting 1HKO out of nowhere is completely BS and, while it generates some keks for the archer, is pretty much the epitome of unfun IMHO.

    2) Builders break blocks faster
    >FUCK YES PLEASE. I long for the days of yore when having a builder get close+personal with your fortifications was a cause for panic; rather than the "oh bother; now I have to waste some time squashing this pest before I can get back to the real game" that is engendered these days. For too long builder has been viewed almost entirely along defence/support lines and this, IMconsideredO, has actually led to increased stalemates & general campiness.
    >Ofc, there's a fine line between "builders break blocks faster" and "lol wht r blocks?", but testingtestingtesting.
    >re: tunneling concerns: Yes, it could be an issue; but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Consider giving a flat increase the breaking speed of both natural tiles & placed blocks and, if tunneling is an issue (but breaking blocks feels good), consider slowly decreasing natural tile destruction bit by bit and see if there isn't a happy medium between current speeds (which are torridly slow) and "MOFG IS SO BAIDE! BILDER @ OP!"

    3) Kegs exploding on impact when launched from a catapult (while lit ofc).
    >Yes. Giving people more reasons to get a catapult up close/personal is good, IMHO.

    > i.e. use whatever function necessary to determine whether the arrow is travelling primarily along the x or y axis and have the explosion act along those lines
    > e.g.
    Current result when you put a bomb in a gap:
    gap1.png
    Proposed result when you put a bomb arrow into that same gap:
    gap2.png

    Basically, it'd give bomb arrows a different feel/utility as compared to normal bombs. You'll note that overall they put out less destructive power, but the shaped nature of the explosion means they'd often do more when used effectively.

    (Despite the pretty graphics I'm not strongly attached to this idea; just wanted to suggest another angle, rather than more same-same. I wrote the above section on Sat, before bomb satchels were a thing; so it's probable they and the bomb-like bombarrows are preferable to this. Anyway. Just posting in case it's actually interesting).
    ----

    re: expended list of changes make here
    >In general, all looks good.

    >re: builders digging, I do feel that rymcd makes a reasonable point:
    so it might be worth trying out faster hits to natural tiles and seeing if it's good/bad/ugly before discounting the idea entirely.

    Oh, re: archers being able to dig:
    Plz to make archers ≤ 1 block high when crouching so this is possible? :heart:
    ----

    Also, I edited in a link to the current "list of proposed changes" into the OP; bc it felt like it was hidden, being buried back on pg. 3

    </FBB ramble> :3
     
    NinjaCell, hierbo, Noburu and 2 others like this.
  11. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    ask me on irc and ill tell you.

    Yeah, we've decided against doing this, to compensate we made fire arrows stronger by adding an extra heart to the damage-over-time.
    willing to try it but maps would need to be redesigned with much more bedrock probably, lf> map slave.

    I actually like this idea, so i'll tinker with it.

    Not possible to change collisions dynamically, so impossible.
    thanks, but I had meant to replace the first post with the new list since it's a rewrite not an addition, forgot to.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  12. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    All my tears. :QQ:

    Yet another example of how @Geti is responsible for everything terrible, ever. </3
     
    Blue_Tiger and hierbo like this.
  13. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Blame Box2d's way of binding masses being some crazy nonsense (and the way that's linked into crimson being even worse).

    You could definitely turn off all collisions and do your own collision logic if you _really_ wanted though.
     
  14. SlayerSean

    SlayerSean FYI: it's pronounced "seen"

    Messages:
    191
    Just thought I'd say that if people really wanted to keg drop in this mod, they could always just set up a cata on top of a tower and launch keg at soonest point (so it barely travels), no? Slightly harder to do than just chucking it down, but same effect really, if you were desperate to keg drop.

    As for FBB bomb arrows: so more tower collapsing, less letting your team through, I guess?
     
    hierbo likes this.
  15. kittycity

    kittycity Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    256
    Also could we make it so when you shoot someone with a firearrow no matter what class they are they put their hands up n scream?

    So far I think knight can still poke and slash around while builder and archer are left hoppin everywhere.
     
    NinjaCell, Verzuvius, Rayne and 3 others like this.
  16. Azazyl

    Azazyl Shipwright

    Messages:
    8
    Remove knight water bombs > Insert Shield bash option in favor of old water bomb button > Knight stun replaces with new shield bash > No pussy fights.

    Trade one for another, this gives knights long range with bombs still, and their stunning is up close.
     
    kodysch, hierbo and Rayne like this.
  17. Verzuvius

    Verzuvius Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    545
    Shield surfing can stun.
     
    BucketEmpty likes this.
  18. Azazyl

    Azazyl Shipwright

    Messages:
    8
    Shield surfing won't be able to stun anymore. Forgot to mention things blabbered in mumble. I am tired.
     
    Verzuvius likes this.
  19. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Eh? There's a button specifically tied to water bomb? :huh?:
     
  20. Rayne

    Rayne ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    he means the inventory bomb type selector, if you selected the old water bomb button, it'd allow you to have a shield bash mechanic using spacebar, but it'd replace water bombs and shield-slide stunning.

    Btw I've added all the current builder changes, the server will be up in a few minutes for anyone to test it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015