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Reducing explosion area of bombs(knight only)

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Ideas' started by Lawrence_Shagsworth, Jul 7, 2015.

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  1. Lawrence_Shagsworth

    Lawrence_Shagsworth Joke Slayer Official Server Admin

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    This idea arises from the common complaint that is 'knight is broken/op'. The idea will partially tackle said complaint as it depletes the effectiveness of a core knight item. The reason for the (knight only) is that the bomb is unfairly versatile(low price, many uses) compared to other explosives in the game. For example, the bomb arrow,exclusive to the archer class, costs twice the amount compared to the bomb. Hence, the bomb arrow is more difficult to obtain. The amount by which the AoE is decreased will depend on opinions of the dev's and the community.
     
    Rhinu, Vampire, RadioActive and 8 others like this.
  2. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

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    Does anyone know the AoE of the bomb in blocks? How many blocks away can a bomb's splash damage reach you?
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  3. Hospitalizer

    Hospitalizer Shopkeep Stealer

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    4 blocks diagonal 1 block horizontal
     
    SirDangalang likes this.
  4. heX_

    heX_ Ballista Bolt Thrower

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    I think it shouldn't be decreased by too much, instinctively I'd say 15-20%. it still needs to be effective vs archers but right now it's a bit TOO effective. I know why zerd liked your post, hehe :bomb::camping: = :bow::skull: :rekt:
     
  5. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
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    Even back before the major knight nerfs, when I was only playing knight, I found the bomb radius to be over powered.
    So much so that it made kills on other classes feel cheap in most cases, and I found it detrimental to the rewarding factor of actually mastering throwing and timing bombs.

    Since then I've only been playing archer. And while archer did have some offensive counters for bombs, most of these have been nerfed drastically or removed. (not counting water arrows, but I'm not touching those with a stick)
    This is due to legolas removal and movement speed nerf while charging arrows.

    Defensive options like running away and dodging is half as fun and engaging for everyone involved if you ask me.

    Reducing the explosion radius of bombs would encourage archers to engage with knights by dodging in more situations, where running off would have otherwise been the only option, if the knight is competent.


    Reducing bomb radius seems better for everone involved in either case imo, but on a side note:

    I would like to see legolas shot return with the added difference that only the last two arrows has randomness, and for these two to decay over time.
    I would also like to see the movement speed reduction while charging arrows to be reverted or some value in between.

    This would give some offensive counters back to the archer, where the explosion radius of bombs doesn't matter as much as it does with dodging. Let me know if I need to expand upon that.

    This might all sound negative, but consider it praise of how good I think it used to be. ::):
     
    kodysch likes this.
  6. Fernegulus

    Fernegulus Bison Rider

    Messages:
    400
    Reducing bomb radius seems like a good idea, agreed on that. I see no reason for further archer buffs though. Let's clarify some shit. As annoying as it is, archer should be the coward behind cover. Builders and archers are meant for strict cooperation, neither a builder nor an archer should be able to 1v1 a knight in a fair duel (provided that they are on the same skill level). I dislike the current trend in KAG development which tends to flat out the differences in classes, that is giving both non-knight classes CRC abilities, general decrease of builder's importance and such. This shit could go on much longer, I think I made my point. Just please stop.
     
    SirDangalang and Asu like this.
  7. kodysch

    kodysch Ballista Bolt Thrower Staff Alumni
    1. Archers [Arch] (Recruiting)

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  8. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

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  9. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

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    Took me an hour to edit this, because I kept messing up the radii:
    BombDamageChart.png

    The 3-heart radius is 4 blocks (not including the block the bomb is on), and the 1.5-heart radius is 8 blocks.
    Note: You will get hit if even a small part of your hitbox intersects with the colored area.
    >tfw I get tagged as a "bomb expert"
    Yea, I think a diameter of 16/17 tiles is pretty ridiculous. The radius for the 3-heart explosion might be okay, but not the outer radius.

    EDIT: After further testing, the 4/8-tile radius may be closer to 3.5/7.5 tiles. Before, I was testing with the (stupid) assumption that the explosion originates from a tile rather than from a single point.

    A more accurate chart (probably):
    BombDamageChart2.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
    Rhinu, J-man2003, dayleaf and 10 others like this.
  10. only took 3 years for people to realize projectiles are broken good :|

    reason why bombs need this radius though is comfortably dealing with archers, you'd need to change archers too when changing bombs
     
  11. Snake19

    Snake19 RIP Staff Alumni Donator
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

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    actually the bomb range is 4/8 tiles right ?
    So, i think 3/7 tiles would be perfect.
     
  12. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

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    It's 3.5/7.5 when you don't count the tile the the bomb is in. If you take the distance straight from the point of the explosion, then it's 4/8.
     
    Snake19 likes this.
  13. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

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    This is the response I was hoping to see. Thanks for taking the time to do that.

    I think the inner radius isn't too bad, but I'd like to see the outer radius (1.5 hearts) reduced by at least 2, if not 3 blocks. (Leaving us with a 3 heart radius of 4 blocks, and a 1.5 heart radius of 1-2 blocks) Or maybe instead of 4/4 (4 block 3 heart radius / 4 block 1.5 heart radius) or 4/2 it could be changed to 3/2 as opposed to 4/4? 4/2 is still pretty large for the inner radius

    And are you sure having your hitbox even slightly in the last block of the diameter results in 1.5 heart damage? I could've sworn I've taken a half heart of damage from bombs before
     
  14. GrieverJ

    GrieverJ Arsonist

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    13
    The general radius on that chart might be correct, but the numbers aren't. You can take anywhere from half a heart to 4 hearts of damage from one bomb, the damage 'zones' aren't as exact as that.

    It's not that I'm completely against a nerf on bomb radius, but I think if you only make a small reduction no one will really notice the difference, while a large reduction would be too much. An appropriate middle ground might be possible, but very difficult to find. Most likely, any effort to actually make a reasonable change here will just get bogged down in anti-bomb hysteria.
     
    kodysch likes this.
  15. ParaLogia

    ParaLogia tired Administrator Global Moderator Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

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    One bomb can never do 4 hearts of damage, unless you put it in your inventory for suicide. I find it very surprising that you'd think otherwise. And I've also been unable to reproduce any damage values other than 3 and 1.5 hearts, in sandbox, TDM, and CTF. I encourage you to test it out your own, to figure it out.

    Of course, I'm not counting any fall damage or external factors. The bomb by itself can only do a maximum of 3 hearts.
     
    Blue_Tiger and Snake19 like this.
  16. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

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    This is subject for another thread, but I wonder whether bombs, slashes, or stomps take priority over one another and in what order
     
  17. GrieverJ

    GrieverJ Arsonist

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    I don't know what to tell you, other than that I've been killed from full by other people's bombs that I didn't pick up, with no other incoming damage sources.
     
  18. heX_

    heX_ Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Messages:
    193
    i think it's some sort of rare bug and not inherent to bombs; I've been killed from full health by a single slash before. though that may just have been some lag issues, but I didn't notice any unusual lag at the time.
     
  19. swagbot

    swagbot Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
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    Probably just desync.

    Also, I'd like to see the skill cieling raised on bombs by lowering their AoE. It'd probably reduce the bomb spam at the beginning of every TDM match and encourage skilled throws- in all gamemodes- instead of just lobbing them into enemy territory
     
  20. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    I think that when knights shields used to be more effective at blocking things the radius was acceptable, however now that it has been changed i find myself getting hit by bombs quite a bit when logically i really shouldnt be. im all for a nerf on the range of bombs because of how they magically go around your shield even though it blew up directly in front of but slightly diagonally to your shield. also i think it would be good for archers to feel more comfortable without having to worry about mini nukes flying out of nowhere every second.
     
    Dargona1018, swagbot and Fernegulus like this.
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