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CTF Rorschach [ACCEPTED]

Discussion in 'Accepted Maps' started by 4zK, Nov 5, 2016.

  1. 4zK

    4zK Horde Gibber Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    70
    Map name: Rorschach
    Gamemode: CTF
    Symmetrical: Yes
    Special features: Enclosed map with (some) focus on more verticality.
    Map: [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2017
    erik102003, Fuzzle, Ni and 3 others like this.
  2. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    This is one of the more interesting maps here(based on .PNG conjecture) shame it hasn't been openly tested or talked about much.
     
    mcrifel likes this.
  3. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    You are totally right punk, this map is pretty neat and should be added to the mapcycle
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  4. Asu

    Asu THD Team THD Team Forum Moderator

    Messages:
    1,579
    This is the map if you wonder how big it is:
    [​IMG]
     
    BarsukEughen555 likes this.
  5. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    292
    Like every map ever made, it has good points and bad points which no one seems to have addressed.

    Good:

    > The bedrock formation minimises the chance of getting rats.
    > Stone resources are acceptable.
    > Shape of the map looks pretty af.
    > Underground chest, noice.

    Bad:

    > While the shape of the map looks nice, the fact that there's a roof may give an annoying advantage to archers.
    > Gold feels a bit barren, could do with more around spawn. I think that's ideally where a majority of it would go.
    > It may be a matter of perspective, but I feel like there's a chance of stalemate, I'm not so sure.


    I was gonna bring up that signatures aren't allowed in maps, but it appears they've altered that rule ever so slightly, so nevermind. :O
    [​IMG]
    All in all, it has potential, but in my opinion (which shouldn't be taken seriously) it feels like the map is just a tad barren, almost lacking detail, but detail isn't important in the slightest. I think 3 trees on each side is enough, should be.
     
  6. FoxyLady

    FoxyLady Bison Rider Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    190
    Judging it by appearance, i feel that the trees from the front most flags should be placed in different spots. I was never a fan of having trees blocking the flag during building phase. New people tend to build most times single layered walls when trees or the red border come in effect when in reality could build so much more.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2017
    4zK and mcrifel like this.
  7. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    It doesn't minimise the change of rats at all, I don't get where you get that from. The way the flags are placed with 1 being above ground and having space below it and the other having a space in front which is covered from the top it is a very ratable place. But I think it is a good thing to allow rats in this manner though.

    The fact that it is a small map you can easily make a wall all the way to the top to stop archers from coming in the base but even then archers aren't that big of a problem on CTF, we can look at a similar map made by 8x which plays out very nicely even though archers can go along the top. What should be more of a concern on these kinds of maps is a transporter and raining kegs which brings me to the the next of your arguments.

    The gold placement is amazing on this map which was one of the first things I noticed. Remember on this map siege isn't ideal to get, maybe a catapult but def no ballista with bomb bolts, if there would be more gold on the map there will be a lot of transporters and we could run into that little problem I told you before. Having it mostly in the middle is a good thing too, it gives teams a reason to push at the start and claim the gold also if one team has more control of the map then they should get the advantage of having more gold available.

    It is hard to have stalemates on a small map like this, the tent and flags are moved far apart and there is a dirt thing between mid and the flag if captured by the enemy can make it really tough for your team to get back in the game.

    I totally agree, the tree should be moved.
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  8. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,273
    I agree with most of this and was tempted to type out a similar response that could be summed up as:most of the aspects of the maps are subjective.it depends on what the player likes in a map on whether it would be good in their eyes(ie lack of much gold, small map, ceiling).


    As for the tree I can't agree with you and Fox's opinion. Idk where you'd move it where it wouldn't negatively impact forward building, or give teams really decent tree farms(on such a small map 2 trees and a large wood supply could turn it into stalemate nation)
     
  9. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    292
    I feel like you misinterpreted some things I said, which happens more often than you think, considering I'm pretty bad at wording stuff.

    On rats, I probably shoulda worded it as it minimised the intensity of rats - of course you'll still get rats no matter what, but if you removed a huge majority of the bedrock, they become harder to reach. With bedrock, they've concentrated to a single route. Never said rats should be disallowed either. If the bedrock was cut out, they'd be given more space to root themselves directly under the flag, such as making a tunnel, shops and other crap.

    Also I wasn't entirely speaking of the bedrock on the ground, I probably shoulda specified. I don't really need to explain the bedrock on the ceiling, you already know that yourself.
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Good point on the map size, but it still makes archers a nuisance, and if given the opportunity, a rain of arrow spam from above while going 25252525 will ensure, and I'm 99% certain that person will be Osmal.

    About the gold, I feel like you thought I was telling him to put enough gold under spawn to pay for America's crippling debt and buy McDonalds with the leftover change. All I insinuated was perhaps 4 or 5 blocks scattered under the spawn just to keep the players from self-destructing and popping a hate boner.
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  10. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    The bedrock on the top is pretty good, it's not enough to stop people from going up there though, also I wouldn't consider that ratting. I feel that the term rat in kag keeps getting wider. I consider a rat a builder that digs into the enemies flag, usually coming from underground but burrowing into the enemies castle and blocking off doors works as well. So a rat isn't limited to the underground and the way dirt is placed above ground a little bit is handy for rats.

    I know what you meant with gold underground but even a little bit of gold hidden underground is bad, first of all it is bad for this kind of map to have even more gold than it already has, you don't want 100 tunnels and putting it near the spawn makes it easier to hold off when you have little map control.
     
  11. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    292
    The term "rat" has been a bit diluted over a while, and if there were enough dirt in the ceiling for players to dig though, it wouldn't be ratting. As you said, it's builders digging under the flag. Sure the bedrock won't stop people from going up there, but I'm looking at the map closeup right now and there's literally nothing you can do up there, except for maybe hide the enemy flag?


    I feel like you use hyperbole a bit too much. I haven't played KAG in a while, but I don't know if you can make a hundred tunnels from 5 gold blocks, correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  12. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    you can make a tunnel with 2 and a half gold blocks also at the top you can only go til mid I just noticed sorry
     
    SJD360 likes this.
  13. 4zK

    4zK Horde Gibber Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    70
    hey guys, thanks for showing interest on my map

    I feel as if the term "ratting" is too often used to loosely describe anything relating to offensive builder tactics similarly to how any criticism or speech about cultural differences is inadvertently deemed racist

    anyway, compared to many other maps, I don't feel like this one suits ratting any better with the max dirt depth of about 8 blocks at the bottom (assuming that ratting = tunneling), the dirt is gonna erode quickly

    and yes, the bedrock thing at the bottom is a conscious decision, let's just say I make a lot of conscious decisions

    I also think that in this map in particular, mid control doesn't need to be established in order to win since capping the flags is more likely to happen first, I personally like maps that end a bit quicker

    I really do think that the map has to be tested to see how it works in action though

    and I agree about that one tree, idk what I was thinking
     
  14. SJD360

    SJD360 Haxor

    Messages:
    292
    I've seen the term "ratting" as a strategy rather than an insult. :o
     
  15. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Remove / move that one tree, then i'll accept it
     
    4zK likes this.
  16. 4zK

    4zK Horde Gibber Staff Alumni

    Messages:
    70
    here ya go!

    I moved the tree closer to spawn so that you don't necessarily have to jump down to get the wood, I also added a little more stone at mid & 1 block of bedrock on each side
     

    Attached Files:

    mcrifel likes this.
  17. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    Oh fucking yes, looks very cool.
    Perhaps the underground is very tight for rats, I bet however the main flow will be onground and on top.
     
    4zK likes this.
  18. PooManCHU

    PooManCHU Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    93
    I Call players that tunnel at the top of certain maps not rats but bats, if fits what there doing better, what you consider rats and or ratting is pretty much dead on. also i call underground tunnel spawners Rat's nest's
     
    4zK and PUNK123 like this.