Scripting Build Videos

I'm really not trying to sound like an asshole because you really do seem genuine, Reactor... But if this is how you feel about everything and you feel you have so much experience, why not make your own game? If you're talking about just using the KAG engine and creating a new game from scratch, why not just go the whole nine yards? Seems a little unfair for you to be constantly knocking their efforts to expand on what we (AS PLAYERS) are able to do with the game itself, and then basically want to take all their hard work and make your own "game". Modification or not, that seems a little ridiculous.

You're constantly touting about your great achievements, so I'm failing to see why making your own game from scratch is so implausible. The whole point of KAG's modification platform is to allow players to expand on the KAG world, not use the basics to make an entirely new IP. Get what I'm saiyan?

 

Yeah that reaction (no pun ;)) was a little much man, this isn't the unreal engine, it's never seemed like it was ever designed to be anything like that. The scripting build has always seemed to be made with the intent of simply making content for KAG which the developers haven't had time for, due to giving us a more stable engine that's capable of doing more. If you take what modders have done with classic as an example of what can be done within the limited framework of what we have now, then all sorts will be possible. But to rant about not having a complete engine to make your own game from for $25 or much less is expecting an awful lot. Sure alots been done with something like minecraft, but you can see with certain mods that alot is still not possible, or your really stretching the engine to do it, plus the nature of minecraft is such that you can chop and change that game pretty easily I'd imagine.

The devs even said they want to add the capacity to add MORE modding capacity to the game then there is already anyway. Personally I'm amazed by the developers patience with what the community throw at them sometimes, could have easily pleased the masses a long time ago by throwing a load of shitty unbalanced content at them in a fucked up engine and made a lot of quick cash doing so.

 

Not again... :(

First of all, throw out the whole idea "make your own game, Reactor" out of your head. As a matter of fact I am actually making a game, but thats beside the point. I'm talking about KAG's modding system and what I, as a modder, could do with it, what are its possibilities and what potential it has. Whats the reason for KAG to have a modding system to begin with?

And what the hell are you talking about "take their hard work and make your own game" and "knocking down their efforts to expand". Dude, first of all, I'm not knocking their efforts down, instead I'm doing the exact fucking opposite. I'm trying my best to make it even better, help them to make an even more robust system that what it seems to be right now, provide even MORE possibilities that modders can do.

And for fucks sake, what the hell is wrong with making a whole new game with a modding system? This is exactly what a modding system allows a modder to do. If you think that the blob system for creating new content(objects and characters) will be enough to improve gameplay, it wont be.

Its limited. You can only do so much with added content before you realize that the map and game logic are as important in the overall scheme of things to make something cooler.

Its like you don't want people to make mods or think I'm stealing KAG or something. What the fuck man.

 

Again, I said no offense, and I never said you were "stealing" anything.

I'm a tester. I have been messing with the build. I am seeing firsthand what is possible and what isn't. We've seen all manner of stuff lately.

You haven't. You're making huge assumptions based on hearsay. All Geti said was that SO FAR, the modding platform is unstable. Who's to say that a month down the line you won't be able to fuck with game logic and map configs? As of RIGHT NOW (remember, Reactor, this is an alpha build, you seem to forget that every time you tell Geti/MM/staff that they love trial and error and that they're not gonna have a good modding community without everything you want).

There's nothing wrong with making mods for KAG. I never said there were. But when you take the engine, completely rewrite EVERYTHING from the ground up, it ceases to be KAG. Just look at shit like Trouble In Terrorist Town. It's a HL2 mod, but at a certain point, games like that are no longer the seed of it's predecessor. It's a whole new game.

I'm in no way saying that great things can't come from an expansive modification platform. I'm not saying you're trying to steal the game or the engine... What I AM saying, however, is this; Look at how much people have been able to do with classic. There are game modes that nobody ever thought of before; Zombie CTF, Cat And Mouse, Donkey Kong Co-op, etc. That's just from messing with the CONFIG files in a relatively unstable platform.

Now imagine the new build; a much MUCH more expansive modding platform. To the point where we've been able to create things that nobody thought possible. I'm gonna approach Geti about posting a certain video (from the earlier builds of the scripting build) that shows off something that made my heart skip a beat when I first saw it. Just so you guys can see that it's not cKAG anymore. It's still KAG, but it's been turned on it's ear and has been given a facelift.

 

Its true that I haven't tried the new KAG yet, but I've seen enough "Alphas" and "Betas" of a whole load of games and their developers to see some patterns to know when something will dissapoint and so far no one has made an exception to that.

I'm sorry if this will feel like I'm rubbing my experience in your face that I cannot prove to you again, but as an ex-modder, ex-content developer and a now a full game dev, I've seen some shit to the point where I can predict it with accuracy that I consider sometimes fucking ridiculous.

Right now, your speech gives of a feel that "I want KAG to be comfortably limited and mediocre in terms of modding capabilities".

You mention Trouble in Terrorist town and that its shit, but that does not mean everything that is so extensive is also going to be shit. It all comes down to design and crap like Trouble in Terrorist Town is as good as if someone made a shitty content mod for KAG.

If you allow something like Trouble in Terrorist Town to cloud your judgement over total conversion mods, then you're severely limiting what cool things KAG could be a host for.

 

I never said TTT was shit. I thoroughly enjoyed TTT.

My speech isn't giving off anything other than I know that the scripting build is going to allow for some really cool shit, even if logic and messing with maps at their core isn't quite there yet.

Frankly dude, I don't doubt that you have some experience. Not at all. But the fact that you openly talk shit without backing yourself up with at least SOMETHING you've done is offensive to the rest of us. I'm a full game dev as well, but it was stuff coded in Flash and built with shit like Construct and Stencyl. Then there were my days of fucking with RPG Maker 2000/2003.

However, just because I do(did) these things doesn't give me the knowledge of what goes on in Michal OR Max's brain. They clearly have a set destination point they want to reach with KAG, and a lot of the things you're saying gives off the impression that you don't think they care about the quality of KAG. This is something that couldn't be ANY farther from the truth. You're very pretentious at points and I don't think you realize it, boasting such things as, "...but as an ex-modder, ex-content developer and a now a full game dev, I've seen some shit to the point where I can predict it with accuracy that I consider sometimes fucking ridiculous." That claim is completely unfounded. Just because you're a solo developer of some game that you've never given any insight into, an ex-modder with no examples of your work, and the only thing you really have to stake your claims is a game design blog...

Again, trying not to be offensive, but I can easily sit here and write blogs up about game design, game theory, why good games are good and why bad games are bad, while all the while sprinkling in little teasers of pixel art I have made.

Let me just say that some of the best games I've played (and we're talking independently made here) offer nothing more than the content that was originally shipped. Examples? Grid Shock, Shoot First, Action Fist!, HeroCore, Star Guard, Streambolt Desero, Under The Garden, Excavatorrr, Chalk, Dig-N-Rig...

One of the most common things between these examples are their simplicity. Star Guard has you running through a few levels shooting red enemies in a game that looks like it belongs on the Vectrex. HeroCore is an exploration/shooter with MONOCHROME GRAPHICS. Shoot First is a rogue-like with a shooter mixed in... These games have very VERY little to offer besides the content they were released with, and they have been some of the most played games on my computer.

What I'm getting at is that I'm always a little awe-struck when people outright demand that hard-working developers cater to their every whim, especially in cases where they've already basically waited on you hand and foot. They have created a game that I paid $9.99 for, have played AT LEAST twice a week for the last year, has had more updates than most other games I've played, etc. And now they're offering the opportunity to modify a TON of shit within the game world, yet you're gonna sit there and tout that it's going to be a "disappointment" simply because you're a game developer with nothing to show for it.

All I know is that I really hope people aren't listening to you, I hope they follow their own instincts and listen to the people who have access to the test build and aren't going on the blown-smoke from a bitter game developer.

 

Like I said, I can't prove my credibility to you, nor I think I will. I don't care if you believe me or not, but just know that I did say what I did and thats my personal verdict.

What I said is just how it is and how it feels, whether the developers do take my advice or not is up to them, but if they do otherwise, they'll have known why I personally did not get into modding their game, thus making the worth of their modding system dubious.

As a gamer, modder and a customer, I'm just voicing my honest opinion on the future KAG, which from all the info I've gathered so far combined with my experience (which I don't have to prove to you), and hope for the best. The important part is to do your part and voice your opinion while it being accepted by the developer. These forums we are in right now are here are for a reason.

 

Right, but if you're going to make such ostentatious claims I think it's only logical to present your work, and what gives you such a headstart on the rest of us. I'm curious as to what type of game you're even developing that allows you such insight as to immediately determine what's going to happen with the future of the game when the staff hasn't gone into much detail other than, "You'll be able to have extended modification capabilities."

But you're right, you don't have to prove anything. Continue being incredibly snooty and pretentious, referencing tons of "experience" that holds zero weight considering we don't even know it exists.

 

First of all, I'm not superior to anyone here. Fuck off.

Second, the whole talk about the extended modding capabilities is something I've personally been researching for the past 2-3 years to create a system way more robust and powerful than what Cortex Command had back in the day. I've done a massive amount of work on analysing, simulating and generally figuring out all the aspects of this. This whole research ties into the infinite-game concept that a robust modding system as the one I'm designing is included.

KAG is just the type of a game with the type of a gameplay framework that this system could work in to an excellent extent. The potential to be had here is HUGE.

 

All I'm gonna say is this;

Give the developers time to work things out before outright condemning the entire thing, especially in full view of developers/staff/players. People can easily mistake your constructive "criticism" as something more damaging and opt out of buying the game. The developers need healthy encouragement, not constant ragging on them and comparing their work to various other works. I understand that you probably have been doing all this research and all this work, but it real makes you seem INCREDIBLY pretentious to assume your work in superior in any way. Quit getting so angry just because I'm pointing out your attitude. It's one thing to offer criticism, it's another entirely when you make such bold statements as, "...but as an ex-modder, ex-content developer and a now a full game dev, I've seen some shit to the point where I can predict it with accuracy that I consider sometimes fucking ridiculous." Again, it makes you seem like a dick. I'm just being honest here.

 

No worries, I was finished as of last night.

I wonder what the dudes are gonna show off next. Haha

 

"Seasons" > You will love GLSL.

 

Okay, that's f'in awesome.

Aha, so an event system. Good deal. So, scripts behave sort of like mixins (sort of). I can deal with that.

Great! That should solve most things. And I assume instead of replacing, you can create custom objects/classes/etc just by loading entirely new script files. I am hoping - and probably correct, from what I'm reading here - that all the Base script files will be available for reading and not compiled, so we can better override/understand the biz logic behind them? That would be great - having a much more extensive Base folder (similar to MC's extracted minecraft.jar) would be awesome, and allow some really neat mods.

Only one related question: when you say "include a file", that assumes I am already modifying some file somewhere to actually run the import/include command. Will there be a modifiable, upgrade-protected way to include/load mods? A few ideas pop in my mind, and am hoping one of these is already in the plan:

• A directory, mods/, which is empty on first install, but when you place subdirectories in it, KAG auto-scans and loads the files in it to automatically load the mods. This also prevents conflicts between mods, though OOE (order of execution) might be an issue.
• OR, a modifiable file that is run on load (say, Base/mods.cfg) that can be edited to provide a list of paths to mod initialization scripts to load. This would prevent conflicts, solve the OOE issue, and allow for easy mod adding - plus you could probably fairly easily add a GUI in-game to modify and abstract this out.

Something like the above ideas would allow for easy loading of multiple mods, and even pave the way for a "Mod Manager" to be made in-game, that could browse mods uploading to some central repository. (Think of the possibilities of checkboxing which mods you want to load after downloading them by only clicking! :p )

Anyway, i'll stop, i'm getting too excited.

Happy birthday! Go enjoy it, and stop answering my silly questions. :)

 

I guess i am too late to create a better Airscrew video. :p

 

When you've recovered from your birthday, any chance you can direct link that video Geti? Chrome's a cunt with youtube videos posted in threads on the forum for some reason.

Have a good one by the way dude.