The Problem

So the solution for a game that feels unbalanced is to basically make the game less fun for everybody by nerfing the classes in to oblivion, normally by the end of a long CTF match (18 vs 18 etc) all those amazing buildings are nothing but broken down bits of rubble, so long as your team isn't completely retarded. Building is basically what this game is all about, i'd hate for it start feeling like a boring hack and slash game where all we do is run at each other until we die, the siege the castle aspect of this game is so very important.

I think the solution for buildings being too powerful would be to give the player more tools and abilities to bring these buildings down.

 

JackMcDaniels is absolutely right. You're complaining about everything in the game that can be used against something else.
You posit that:

1) Buildings are useless because you can bomb-jump over them.
2) Buildings are over-powered because they make a team of archers invincible.

Don't you see that these things cancel each other out? The game is close enough to balanced, and if any balance change is going to happen to buildings, it ought to make them more sturdy. I, however, am perfectly happy with the way things are.

Great caution must be taken not to nerf something simply because it counters something else. World of Warcraft, just to give one example, has been ruined by homogenisation.

 

The problem I see with your suggestion about nerfing the builders is, that playing a builder is already pretty boring sometimes. I almost exclusively play builder most of the time but I love to play offensive. So if you change the speed and way builders can build, they can only play defensive from now on.

Let's say you want to build a wall and it takes 3 seconds per block to build. that means if you want to build a 5 block high wall that isn't jumpable for knights you need 15 seconds. Since almost all games are flooded with crazy kamikaze knights you would almost never succeed in building it if the enemy team is good.

But it also would buff buildings even more if you change the game like that, since builders only could insta wizard build ladders and such to overrun a building and not stone blocks anymore. So it is a two edged sword :/

Edit:
I think buildings aren't overpowered but rather knights sometimes get annoyed if they can't just overrun the enemy! I think it's ok as it is at the moment, so that knights need the help of builders to climb a big building and builders need knights as protection from archers. It's a little bit like rock paper scissor. Making the builders useless and nerfing the building aspect would just make the game into a rampage fest where every team would have 18/20 players as knights that just run into the front and pillage.

 

Yes, I like this too. Buildings, towers etc, both for offense and defense, are the best of KAG and SHOULD be OP unless there's an organised assault. Let's leave siege weapons and kegs for rapid building demolition.

I don't like to play on limited unit servers, so don't get to see the defensive end game.

PS. Not really liking the idea of slowing the Builder's attack speed :( I guess it will work out in the wash though.

 

I think that before nerfing the buildings there should be more siege weapons added. building is what makes the game special for now.

something like a battering ram workable by 2+ knights would be fine, with other knights needed to cover them with shields and archers/catapults for cover fire.

 

Thisa is a good idea, I like the idea of siege weapons being the counter to the problem of 'OP' buildings..

As a builder if you make a cool inpenitable structure, it validates playing as a builder. dont nurf it because people want to sword play, simply make the other teams bulder create a weapon thats able to counter a building.

A battering ram with top cover perhaps? Knights using this are able to eventually crush castles and are shilded from archers etc...

 

I disagree with taking fall damage above 5 blocks, but that's it.

 

I understand why some knights get annoyed by "OP buildings". But I've seen many games where one team has almost ONLY knights and they shatter at the defense of the enemy, but no Knight would think of changing to builder to help the other knights. I think some people get turned off gathering ressources first, before they can go in battle. They just want to spawn, charge and attack as fast as possible without having to prepare or plan something. Sometimes the knight hordes remember me of a mindless swarm of zerglings in a blood rush hehe

If more offensive builders would be used, then the buildings would be far from OP. But not many people like to play builders that way. I've seen builders that turned around a game single handed, with just some right buildings and playing offensive so that the zergling horde can do what they can do best: PILLAGE!

 

Only way to find out what's best is to test it all. After zombie mode has been polished and the bugs squashed, a lot could be accomplished in a short amount of time with a dedicated testing team and a list of possible solutions to try out.

But you'll never satisfy everyone.

 

I personally love the building like it is now. I would really dislike it when we can build nothing but small stone cottages :(

 

I rarely post on the forums, so I'll be damned if my opinion matters too much, but I really like this idea. It could also help tunneling be a semi-useful strategy since the entire tunnel wouldn't be able to be stopped by one builder with a bunch of stone blocks.

 

I like the entombment suffocation idea. It gets so annoying at the end of the game when a team would rather kill off the rest of the team, and you see one builder digging himself into the ground, placing 3x3 stone behind him every few blocks. So fucking annoying.

I don't like fall damage after 5 blocks. That seems a little excessive, considering that's not very high in-game.

I wouldn't be against allowing builders to destroy stone blocks a little faster. 7 hits with a second delay in between makes even stopping griefers who place stone everywhere a huge problem.

I am completely against nerfing building, it's one of the few things that set this game apart and really caught my interest. Yeah, some noobs make incredibly shit buildings, but there are those magical games where you get some awesome teams and some awesome buildings.

 

Buildings aren't OP against a well protected builder with nothing to lose. Scarier than a knight. The only reason buildings give the illusion of being overpowered is because the concept of teamwork is still a rarity on the battlefield, and this is something essential to taking one down. The reason a knight is stopped in his tracks once he reaches a tower is because his role then changes. He must become defensive and ensure the builders are kept safe while they slice through a building like a knife through butter.

I'm sure actual medieval troops thought castle strongholds were pretty overpowered too and attempted to ask their enemies to nerf them. Unfortunately, that probably didn't pan out well for them. So they went through the gate, mined under the castle, went over it with ladders and siege towers, or collapsed it with catapults. And they did it without magic hammers that could break through stone like it's nothing.

 

I completly agree that buildings are OP. It was that fact that lead me to post the (almost uninamously hated) idea of knights with ladders. Now geti has suggested removing team ladders! I love the idea, it accomplishes the same goal I had, only in a better way. And actually one of my very first thoughts while playing this game was about how team ladders removed all skill from building a castle. So I throw my complete support behind geti's ideas, I have yet to read a bad one.

 

Why not keep trap doors but just tweak them a little bit so they can still function as trap doors. KAG without some form of trapdoor feels like too drastic of a departure. Make it so that it only provides team support from above and that it blocks teammates off like a normal block when you jump up from below.

 

See, I would agree here, but once players aren't able to do that and have to resort to doors...

I mean, think about it, we already have to deal with 7+ door hallways, back to back the whole way. Anyone who tries to fix it is labeled a griefer and they just keep putting them back up. I literally had to walk through a door TUNNEL the other day, it was at least 11 doors back to back.

I dunno, I just hope we work out the issues without sacrificing efficiency and functionality.

 

Just make it so they can't jump up in to doors as well, so people will have to think big and diverse when designing a defensive structure.


I'm not too sure how it would work, or if it would work, people may just spam ladders afterwards.

Also a medieval game without ladders just doesn't seem right, perhaps make them VERY expensive to make, since they are so useful.

 

Kouji if you get caught in a trap you should probably die regardless if it's your team's or the enemy's.