The Problem

You know what will happen if you add build time?
Being a builder is already boring sometimes and large structures need a considerable amount of ressource gathering after the start preparing time. So you force people to mindlessly gather ressources and then spend an eternity building something? And probably the builder will get wasted by archers, knights and other builders before he even can make a 5 block high wall ....

That sounds like frustration to me! Why spend all this time gather, plan and build something while all the knights are running to the front without having to prepare something? Since knights get instant action, Archers get semi-instant action (they can buy arrows) you would only achieve that NOONE would be a builder anymore only if he would be really really REALLY dedicated to this boring job.

I already hate all those knight slaughter fests, where on a 48 people server 40 people are knights that just storm the front and throw aimlessly bombs at each other. This game isn't about knights vs knights It's a teamplay game where every class should be as fun as the other!

Sometimes I think, knight-players think they are main reason this game exists ...

Edit:
It would be the same if you would play Teamfortress 2 and start complaining that a sniper, engineer or the grenade guy can stop your scout rampage, so you whine around and hope they get so nerfed that your favourite class just overruns everything else ...

 

I did know that... that's why I'm saying the new weapons are better than changing every feature already in existence. Builders build too fast and destroying buildings takes too long.

Either the build times or the methods with which we destroy buildings has to increase; one or the other. This game isn't going to stay the same forever, sorry.

 

I really like the suffocation idea, because it means a tunneler can't just throw up an instant stone wall and then be totally fine and protected in his tunnel. He'd be sealing himself off from oxygen. It'd be suicide. :D (although he could just zig-zag single stone blocks so he always has air, but a knight can't fit through. Hrmmm balancing.)

Also as far as doors, I think it would be interesting if stone doors were portcullises, basically. There'd be some sort of button or winch (only one per portcullis) you could place near the portcullis to activate it. You'd put it at the foot of it or, say, in a room higher up. That would add an interesting element of having to open and close the portcullis to block out enemies, which would also block your teammates. Naturally, a builder would be able to break through a portcullis.
(I haven't deeply pondered the balancing or spam potential or price of this idea at all.)

 

The problem is not buildings in and off themselves. but the very limited ways of dealing with buildings. the only reason that people actually camp in their castle is because they can. You will see it almost everywhere, 5 archers sitting atop a mighty tower. with one or two knights jumping down to fight the enemys 8 knights. that is until you start to tunnel through their tower! suddenly there is reaction! more knights, and less reliance on the structure.

The way i see it. the antithesis to the power of buildings, is more siege equipment. like the powder kegs, the canopies, all the ones that they have discussed. heck can you imagine what peoples reaction will be when you roll a siege tower up to their wall? having this will allow knights to be a serious threat to any building Providing that he has the right equipment having the ability for the knights to destroy walls? hell no, as much as i loathe and despise archers. that along with the bomb jumps current power is just plain silly.

The role of the knight is to kill people in melee combat, with the bombs as a supplement not to topple towers or scale walls on his own, that is what he needs the rest of his team for, the builders. they have no where near as many offensive abilities (and by that i mean siege equipment) avalible to them. imagine a three knights without bombs approach a 5 block thick wall with a spike pit below it and with 3 archers perched high atop the the tower. What would happen? the knights would die without any ability to do damage to the structure. or sit ducks with their shield above their heads and be totally useless. now if they where to approach it with a canopy. a battering ram and a powder keg? HUGE threat.

tldr: dont give ridiculous abilities to destroy buildings, just provide proper siege equipment.

 

I don't see the problem in big sturdy buildings, but more that most people don't like to play offensive as builder. Start building a ladder of stones on the enemy wall so that your team can vault over it. Then turn THEIR structure against them as builder.
That way you don't have to destroy the building but instead you use it against them.

But that is a job a knight can't do, so people think buildings are OP

 

The game isn't going to stay the same? really? i mean i was the one who just told you that the game was going to receive the updates you wanted and now you're telling me that the game isn't going to stay the same forever, well shit, thank you enlightened one.

And yes, kegs should put a boot in those big bad walls that just want to make your life that much harder.

 

with more classes and game-changing additions on the way, i'd say it's a little premature to gauge on a whole what balances are needed.

balancing the entire game now will just require need to rebalance once new elements are added, and again and again ad nauseam until the planned classes and mechanics to be included get finalized. any changes they make to KAG will likely need to be tested over the course of time with the player base to be sure it's effective [and fun] or not. this isn't a problem necessarily, depending on the frequency of updates, and i'll agree we do need some balance to the game as it stands now as we haven't had anything besides an incremental patch in a long while.

that said, i'm sure the devs want to work on more than just balance issues considering the game is currently in an alpha state and there are a lot of game-changing additions to come. if you look at a game like SC2, every patch includes some kind of balance tweak even years after release, despite no new units or buildings or anything being added. SC2 also has an entire team of people dedicated to doing just that, where KAG is obviously not going to have the resources for it. the development time impatient users are already complaining about would only get worse.

i personally really enjoy the game as it stands now. being able to build within your initial setup period is essential to your team's survival, and fun as well because you have free reign over what building design you're going for. let us make our glorious castles and fight to bring 'em down i can understand the need for balance once the game has started regarding tombing, stone massing, and tunneling, but the people doing this either don't truly know how to play and be a contributor, or go out of their way to grief everyone stuck in spectator mode at the end of a match by doing it, leading to games not even being finished properly because someone calls a vote for the next match. it has less to do with the game's problems than with the individual's problems.

 

I just really don't like the idea of nerfing builders. The building phase is interesting, one game you should just sit and watch some talented builders and what they can throw up in limited time.

Someone else said it best, if you remove unlimited resources during the build phase, you're gonna run out of resources, and fast. I already see noobs who tear up all the stone and trees during build time, even though they're constantly reminded that there are free resources in the tent. Wanna talk about unbalancing the game? That'll do it for sure.

Entombment is annoying, and I really hope to see the suffocation thing happen. I agree with Jack that it SHOULD be a bannable offense.

 

Entirely true. i would be disheartened and dissapointed if the developers where to be scared into focusing primarily or only on tweaking an unfinished game.

i dont know about you but i would much rather live with the current system and get my zombies, mongol hordes, siege equipment, animals, day/night cycles, new modes and all the other things they likely have planned. instead of an unfinished game crippled with patching what is not yet complete.

 

Since no one is really opposing the idea ( trap door detail specifics aside ), do you all agree that removing team ladders is a good move?


Its not a nerf of any class, its a nerf to buildings. Having to be more strategic in you're planned castle layout can only lead to better gameplay.

 

I wouldn't mind it.

 

1. Let the admin of a server have the option to enable/disable building time and how resources are gained (with a time ticker or keep it as it is or only gainable by digging). These are all game changing concepts. This is not a balance issue, it's a preference of gameplay, it depends on taste. "fixing" it would slap one group of players in the face, not addressing it the other. So give people the ability to choose and create a server like they want it to be.

2. Your suggestion that building blocks gets canceled when someone is moving through it while you build is the most annoying concept I can imagine, especially during early phases of the game

 

As a solution to team-only vertical travel:

Allow Team Bridges to function exactly as they are when moving down through them. When a team member moves up, however, they operate as a ladder with half the player movement speed that ladders do.

Team Bridges would still function effectively as traps, and this indirectly buffs ladders, ensuring more frequent use of them for vertical movement.

 

Standing still while jabbing would be bad, not getting stunned while being jabbed would be good. What's wrong with his outcome?

 

That solves nothing, and just slows down gameplay.
The idea is that if one team can get to it, so can the other. Archers can't be safe on top just because team ladders are in the way.

 

Yes. that's what me and the others are suggesting.