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Devlog Weekly News – KAG Update for Halloween

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    So your saying an aspect of the game that took a very long time to master should be completely shut down by a buy able item? That doesn't seem very fair at all... I'm not asking for water to be removed, I'm just asking for reasonable nerfs, I feel in the current situation that water bombs should be harder to use. They completely negate any amount of skill anyone might have in the game as long as the water is in the hands of a competent user. Water arrows are fine in the way they work, they just need a 5 coin price increase. Again this is my opinion, largely because I care about the thing I spent so much time perfecting not get completely countered by something so simple.
     
    AmestriStephen likes this.
  2. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    @kedram

    Yes, getting hit by a water bomb or water arrow in a knight fight is simply another danger in fighting. They may be seen as un skillful, buts it like you said, which is it's dangerous really only in the hands of a competent fighter. People under you who aren't as mastered at swordplay will catch you off-guard to even the field which lets them get the kill because you were expecting it.
     
    Blue_Tiger likes this.
  3. tru0067

    tru0067 Horde Gibber Tester

    Messages:
    165
    I think the problem with water bombs in particular is that they don't really require that much skill. Sure you can "master" them but their skill ceiling is soooooo much lower when compared to swordplay or regular bombs and even kegs or mines. In all honestly they don't require skill and that's the problem. One player is able to kill another with no usage of skill, or at least not much. They are near impossible to react to and with the slightest bit of aim and spacing 100% ensure a kill.
    I'm not even opposed to water bombs, but I understand where others are coming from when they complain. I almost never use water bombs against people because I find them cheap, but I still get annoyed when others use them against me, and it's because they didn't "best" me. They used a strategy which has no effective counter and while its perhaps not the best strategy (lower coin yield, coins could be spent on something more useful etc.) it still gets you killed.

    On the topic of nerfs or counters I get where you're coming from, but in my view that's not the way to go. As mehwaffle pointed out most people hate tunneling but I think people hate it not because it beats other strategies, but because it forces you to play in a certain way. Arguably the only way to properly combat tunneling is by counter-tunneling, and forcing people to play a that way isn't fun. Ofcourse in the case of tunneling I find it perfectly balanced as it takes ages to tunnel anywhere and is easy to see coming. But if this were applied to other strategies such as siege bombardments I feel that the game would be going downhill. I already hate being forced to switch to archer and load up on bomb arrows to take down a ballista. If you're going to give something a counter don't give it just one because then you're forcing people to play in a way that they may not necessarily enjoy. Thus you can see why changing the game in such a way that makes a strategy less effective (whether in this case it be cost increases, health (of ballista) decreases or a tile damage reduction) seems like a better way to go.
     
    mehwaffle10 and kedram like this.
  4. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    898
    Yes. Water arrows have no coin reward and the only reason to buy them is to help your team. I'd be okay with a 5 coin increase if you got 5 coins back for everyone you stunned. I agree that waterbombs need a nerf, I think removing collisions with players might work to give more opportunity to catch it but I haven't had a chance to try it yet cus Brawlhalla is addicting.
     
    EhRa likes this.
  5. GreyHCK

    GreyHCK Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    82
    i'd say instead that waterarrows shouldn't come in a stack of 2 per purchase, i mean if we compare to normal waterbombs, water arrows can be directed on the enemy with more precision meaning that a single archer with a full water inventory can immobilize enemy players for a way too long time ez. This can be totally legit from a side (i mean go on you can do it) but from the other side it's just plain annoying (i've whitnessed and felt too much water showers with even more than one archer spamming no stop). My dream is that water ammo won't immobilize players anymore but instead make 'em unable to see what's going on on screen for a fair amount of time. The affected player may still attack, but he won't know who will attack him and from where, not to mention that he may fall into mines or traps if he moves around mindlessly.
     
  6. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Official Server Admin Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    804
    I lost you at that.

    The 5 coins a sucessful stun would be cool, atleast something to make them worth buying (other than the obvious reasons of escaping).
     
  7. zerd

    zerd Arsonist
    1. SIEGE Clan - SIEGE

    Messages:
    47
    -- Criticism, feedback and suggestions coming up, better prepare your warnings, admins.
    Condensed version of my thoughts on water ammo:

    In most cases you cannot know what an enemy might have in his or her pocket, thus you must play as if any knight or archer is always carrying water ammo, and both are pretty much unavoidable if used correctly.

    Water bombs can easily be setup to guarantee a kill without the opponent having any chance of avoiding it. So playing around them basically means: never approach.
    Water arrows are even worse in that regard since you must expect any arrow at any charge state, to instantly turn into a water arrow. Takes fewers ticks to activate and reach you.

    I would still hate water ammo, but I might accept their existance if they were both nerfed like so:

    Water bomb: does not explode on impact.

    Water arrow: archer cannot change arrow type while already charging an arrow.
     
    kedram and AmestriStephen like this.
  8. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    Zerd is kedram's alt confirmed :3
     
    AmestriStephen and Vamist like this.
  9. AmestriStephen

    AmestriStephen Bison Rider Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    335
    ZERDU IS ALWAYS HAPPY THO::):::):::):::):
     
  10. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,231
    So what im hearing is that you want to buff water arrows so that after spamming them you only need 15 coins to purchase a new set? Also if it worked for everyone spam stunning groups of knights would make this mechanic trash(because you shouldnt get 15 coins for shooting a group of 3 knights with a water arrow that stuns)
     
  11. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    898
    yes
     
  12. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    434
    mmmph :L
    -y, ima do ze criticism now
    On mein opinion, the spamming the waterarrows is just useless buff to already much OP waterarrows.
    Just gotta give some examples: 2 pro knights vs nabknight+banarcher. Archer just fires 2 wtarerarrows, enemy knights stunned, nabknight just jabs em off to death.1vs1 of archer vs knight, archer can just easily stun him while he will be holding the lighted bomb, -3Hp for enemy knight, then just finish off him with simple arrow.Rekt?
    On my opinion, the waterarrows should be counterable with at least being able to slash them midair or shield them, but with buff in meaninings of less price, moar range or something like that.
    Honestly, same thing about waterbombs - counterable (and not only with catching, as because of the ping lag when you press C then ping timeout makes waterbomb hit you while server is analising your C pressing, so basically you can only catch waterbombs with a little of speed.), cheaper, some more buffes prob.
     
  13. Coroz

    Coroz B R B Official Server Admin Donator Tester
    1. [AG#] - Ancient Gear

    Messages:
    135
    1 option for the waterstuns is you can only stun a target once every 10 sec or so. making water spam a lot less powerfull, another option is that you can only buy 1 waterarrow for 1 slot: same as bombarrows. also you could implement a strong knockback so its harder to reach the knight in 1 vs 1, not sure how that effects kegs when lit :D
    just some idee's
     
  14. BarsukEughen555

    BarsukEughen555 Drill Rusher

    Messages:
    434
    waterbomb+keg=hadouken
    improved waterarrow+keg= chaoc
    over9000 knockback to waterarrows, plox
     
  15. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    898
    All these nerfs to my precious water arrows ........ pls

    Here's a fair nerf I thought of though - if you water someone while they're shielding, they can still continue to shield while stunned. If they're not shielding, they can't shield while stunned. This helps cus you can't just water->regular shot for free ez damage when 1v1 with knight. However, you can still use it as a defensive item to get faggots off your back.

    The reason why I don't want water arrows to be 100% shieldable is because then you can just rush with your shield up against an archer and then jabspam when you're close enough. Also, if you can shield while stunned, there is now no way to use water arrows as anything other than a defensive option vs. knights.

    -910385015902135 to only have 3 water arrows (stack in 1s). I already hate being full of water arrows at just 6. As a water specialist, you go through them so quick; I've gone through like 4 at once sometimes cus my noob team refuses to attack the enemy I stunned, that's 40 coins for 1 kill that rewards 0 to the archer. I actually would very much like the removal of arrows altogether like I put in my server and allowing archers to carry 4 items and not have to worry about arrows, but that'll never happen ;-;.
     
    bru-jaz likes this.
  16. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,231
    Can you just use your grappling hook instead of having a 20 coin item to instantly save your life?
     
  17. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    898
    I could, but running is not fun for either party :).
     
    bru-jaz likes this.
  18. Potatobird

    Potatobird Bison Rider Forum Moderator Official Server Admin Tester

    Messages:
    766
    What?

    Running is the best part of playing archer, and trying to catch slippery archers is also pretty fun.
     
    mehwaffle10 likes this.
  19. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    898
    Disagreed.
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  20. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,231
    but being stunned is? Wouldnt a solution to this just be having water arrows break shield at a specific range to stun. I understand the arrow is range but like forcing you to be within like 8-10 blocks wouldnt be that bad of a nerf imo(ofc i dont play archer much so it could be)
     
    BarsukEughen555 and Blue_Tiger like this.