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Devlog Weekly News – KAG Update for Halloween

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Geti, Oct 30, 2015.

  1. bru-jaz

    bru-jaz Haxor

    Messages:
    264
    Ive play for a while yesterday and i must say new mines are sick. i cant really tell if they are better nor worse than the previous mines, but im pretty optimistic with the change (volleyballing mines is really fun).
    One thing i must say is you should fix the auto-attached grabing system that looks broken in some way. You should restrict the item you pick up to whatever is under your cursor, not any random item that is close to you (even if you're facing to the opossite way!). I dont know if this could be easly fixed, but i notice this mechanic flaw since the beta. Fixing this, you could grab enemy mines more quickly without grabing crap in your way, and quickly explode your own/ememy mines with corpses too!(happened to me i had to try 4 times grabbing crap as wood,stone,few arrows (some ridiculous ammount as 3!)* to end up picking the item i want).

    *Also i think that only archers should be capable for picking up automatically that ammount of arrows, for the other classes, it is just useless crap.
     
  2. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    I would really mourn the loss of the mine drop. It's led to some wonderful moments in captain's / gather style games, and it really isn't that powerful because it's pretty slow, you can very easily see it coming.

    I've proposed this before a number of times but I think the mine nerf to start with would be:
    -Mines can now be shielded, unless you make direct contact with it

    One way that could be done is if there was a noticeable stun when you hit the mine, and then after a brief moment you both go kaboom. This would make it way less annoying from your teammates' perspective. As for the personal annoyance, they really shouldn't be covered by gibs because in most games the ground is basically coated with gibs making mines impossible to see in a hectic area.

    MSpaint depiction
     
    ParaLogia and CowboyDan like this.
  3. Bint

    Bint Haxor

    Messages:
    536
    These make for the greatest moments! It's not like it explodes on contact with the ground like kegs, you have to be pretty lucky to land it, unless you drop it on them when they're at your tower in which case a spike would do the same thing for free without damaging your defences.
     
    AmestriStephen likes this.
  4. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    I don't actually think this is a problem, tbh. It's kinda creative and a butt-ton more predictable (particularly after the first time) than the alternative (of just minespiking people on the head where/whenever you feel like it). If someone endlessly reusing a mine is problematic then maybe have mines take enough fall damage that a failed mine drop can't be picked up and reused more than, say, once?
    Maybe if you're a non-casual; but, having had the rather unique chance to go back to being terrible at the game (that's what 8+ months rest does for you kids), I can tell you in no uncertain terms that keeping mine dropping as it currently stands is a giant punch in the face to all the "trying to make the game less unfriendly to new people" stuff we've been hearing (and praising, you and me both, potato) for a while now. This game places a huge burden of knowledge on new players and adding yet another 1hko layer of meta means that anyone who's not 100% internalised that meta (like myself atm; and literally almost every other player you'll meet on a normal server) will be repeatedly rekt by players who'd mastered the mine drop. I mean, don't get me wrong, I get that there's some fun to be had with it; but at what cost? And, really, for what actual gain either? If it's as "very easily" avoided as you say?
     
    J-man2003 and Solaris like this.
  5. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    did that player happen to be THE TUNNEL SNAKE :rekt:
    also, i love the new mines its so awesome to get ez kills with them. you can just toss em off towers and get at least 1 kill. also when im being a tunnel snake they are an ez counter to knights who are try to chase me out of my tunnel
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
    Noburu likes this.
  6. link6155

    link6155 Haxor Staff Alumni Tester Official Server Admin
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    534
    There's a reason why spike dropping got nerfed, mine dropping is essentially the same concept but with a greater impact. Saying that mine dropping shouldn't be nerfed is like saying spike dropping should have not been nerfed. Both spikes and mines are falling at the same speed here, for the casual user this is fairly quick. In fact you can make mines fall even faster by jumping up and on your way down throwing the mine downward.
     
    J-man2003, Yagger and FuzzyBlueBaron like this.
  7. Ghozt

    Ghozt Haxor

    Messages:
    1,083
    Good to see this still going, great game you have built. (:
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  8. -Crimson-

    -Crimson- Haxor

    Messages:
    108
    Yeah I remember when spikes use to cost 60 gold.
     
    J-man2003 likes this.
  9. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Point. But then, let's be honest, when were knights (or any class played by someone not utterly terrible) hurting for coins? Never. I'll usually have at least 60 on me every single run I do--even after a bad run. And with the coins I net back from that mine? Hurhurhur... :rekt:
     
    link6155 and J-man2003 like this.
  10. Blue_Tiger

    Blue_Tiger Bison Rider Tester

    Messages:
    899
    Wow, I missed so much, fix your follow feature please.

    Anyway, I really think mines should be 1hko because mfw I hit it, it bounces off a wall and the blows me up -.-.

    Kegs are made for destroying the enemy base, not killing people, whereas mines are made for killing people. Mines do barely more damage to structures than a bomb and require a retard to detonate it, whereas a keg can tear through layers of stone easily. It would surely make sense that mines are a good combat asset, and IMO are a lesser combat asset than kegs (at least when combined with a bomb or two). Think about it, kegs can kill like 10 blocks wide space of people at once with contact with the ground. A mine throw up requires someone to jump into it to even get one kill, and then some people standing around it like chumps to kill the rest. Nah, mine drops are the only good thing about new mines IMO.

    I personally don't think spike-drops should have been nerfed, but I understand the reasons: builders don't need a way to insta kill people with 30 stone. But 60 coins? And easily predictable? (you have the whole deploying state to see it coming).

    Mine <-> 2 bombs?

    And this is why there needs to be a tutorial. No offence to you FBB, but after knowing what they do and how they react, it is surely quite easy to avoid mine drops, no? It's just that "oh look,a spikey ball... oh and I'm dead? this games shit, I'm going back to cod" dealio.
     
  11. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Not sure of you point. Atm its six one way; half a dozen the other. Mines can't be blocked when they're thrown at your head, bombs can be.
    You'd think so; but the number of times I've been/seen people minespiked (i.e. have the mine thrown, not just dropped--thrown--at your head) (often at the hands of a single player who really liked using mines) would seem to suggest otherwise. I mean, to be fair, I'm somewhat rustier than I used to be so maybe I just suck; but even that that's kinda telling, bc I knew to avoid mines even before I'd encountered them for the first time (reading the forums, kinda like a tutorial in that sense) and that knowledge hasn't really helped me.

    Basically, as I see it, it's much easier to learn to throw a mine well than to throw a bomb well; but it's equally difficult to avoid a well-thrown mine or bomb. Thus mines are becoming the go-to item (and no, cost isn't [at this stage] a big factor. If you've not got money for a few mines when you go out then a) stop playing so badly and b) stop spending it on smokes & hookers).
     
    makmoud98 and link6155 like this.
  12. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    On spikedropping, this is why they were nerfed - this is not comparable to mines because you cannot just whip out a mine and instakill someone in a fraction of a second. You have to toss them and they take time to activate. I think if you try to slam it down on somebody it won't activate before landing, but even if I'm wrong on that, the timer can simply be lengthened by a small amount to require more airtime. Do note that actual spike drops, that is, from a height, are exactly the same as they were before the nerf. Mines do have the added advantage of more horizontal distance

    I'm not convinced the anti-casual argument applies here either, to be honest. It's not something that is advanced or hard to understand, or something that needs to be learned. It's just about being aware of your surroundings and noticing when someone lobs a mine from high up, and then moving out of the way. I guess you wouldn't exactly come into the game expecting there to be random deathballs falling from the sky, but people will likely see the thing and think "that doesn't look nice" and get out of the way.

    I think I've mostly seen failed mine tosses, where it doesn't even come close to hitting anyone.

    And I mean, I'm not really decided on this stuff. I'm not sure if it would make the game better for casual / new players, and I don't think I could really know that. It might make the game better overall but I would be sad, as would some other people I know. A good mine drop is always a great moment in a captain's match, and I find it hilarious every time. Kitty and Jig are the gods of mine dropping and I can't get enough of them casually instagibbing the best knights. Even they only land them a fraction of a time, and that's part of why it's so fun.
     
    bru-jaz, makmoud98, ParaLogia and 3 others like this.
  13. PUNK123

    PUNK123 Hella wRangler Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    1,275
    What does captains game have to do with pub play, cant you just mod it to the game you want to play? Anyway i played a game today where we saved our flagroom by killing the enemy's rush with mines(my team basically just spammed mines in flagrooms and when the enemy spawned in the underground tunnel they tried to get the flag and they got gibbed 2-3 at a time). The changes they will be making for mines would be most appreciated asap
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Yagger like this.
  14. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    MFW I'm certain next build will be worse.
    Increase the cost? Lazy AF.
    Frickin' code's worse than the original.
     
  15. Yagger

    Yagger Kouji's bitch 5eva Staff Alumni Tester
    1. SharSharShar - [SHARK]

    Messages:
    646
    the only thing i don't particularly enjoy is when changes are mainly thought of / discussed through the mindset of organized, mainly non-pub, team games (like captains, etc, etc). trampolines as it is, with how i've played so far, only work when i'm actively telling someone or talking with someone to carry a tramp; it's never been a pub knight randomly picking one up and putting it down for his teams. cool, people do [thing] in gather or captains and it works out fine, but that's far different from normal unorganized pub-play.

    ps reintroduce arrow collisions with other arrows and the sort, nerdes.
     
    bru-jaz, PUNK123 and Fuzzle like this.
  16. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    Yeah, I guess that is true with the mod thing, now that I think about it mine dropping really doesn't seem to add much to pub games. I like the idea of the mines not activating before they touch the ground, and maybe that change would stop people from just randomly throwing them at a group of enemies as well.


    Obviously gather/captains style games are way different, but as for the tramps, plunking down a trampoline for your team to use takes no communication at all. It's true that it doesn't make sense to expect pubbies to wordlessly coordinate trampoline carrying / tossing to get over towers, but there's nothing particularly "organized" about setting one down by an enemy tower, and that isn't as powerful as tramp tossing but it still helps. People do choose to take actions to help their team. And yes, Pubbie McJoe who just wants to walk forward and stab some enemies in the face in lala land isn't going to think about doing that stuff, but if he sees a convenient trampoline, he'll bounce on it. That's a lot of what teamwork is in pubs, directing the lemmings.

    Basically although there is little to no communication in pubs, some people do think of their team. Pub teamwork is a thing
     
  17. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    I'm actually confused as to why anyone here even liked tramp cannons in the first place, the way I perceived them was that they were so ridiculously overpowered that they litterally shouldn't have been used at all because of how they basically ruined every match. Even making them cost more sounds like a horrible idea to me because then that strictly designates them to being used only in towers, bringing them outside would be dumb because they could easily be destroyed then. And then we have the fact that even just by having a tramp cannon be possible but just at a greater cost, it would still be overpowered simply because of what it does. I know that people liked them because they didn't really care how overpowered it was, and hence used them as a result, but honestly I think tramps are actually perfect right now. Only thing is in tdm you shouldn't be able to pick them up because that litterally is cancer.
     
    RampageX, CowboyDan, Geti and 5 others like this.
  18. Superblackcat

    Superblackcat baideist baide Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    462
    Ok, I really like the mine drop. It's not that easy to pull off and hit someone, and also, it looks cool af. The problem is, even if you miss it, it still does so much damage, since knights are basically unable to destroy it.
     
    PUNK123 likes this.
  19. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Most people like winning, they don't really care how they do it. It's a pretty serious problem, haha.
     
    Vamist and AmestriStephen like this.
  20. Potatobird

    Potatobird Haxor Forum Moderator Mapping Moderator Tester Official Server Admin

    Messages:
    777
    There's always something satisfying about a keg slam, so that's a big part of it, and also knights who didn't want to walk places. The answer for the second thing should always be tunnels but why make tunnels when you can just make tramp cannons that are waaay safer?

    There is a certain joy of winning, some people feel it more than others, but there's always something that makes it fun (for one side at least) other than winning. Unless the only thing one finds fun about the game is feeling like you're better than the other team.

    But I definitely don't get how they were considered an interesting strategy for a builder. Like, you really just want to build the exact same thing every game? And if the enemy makes one too, welp no forward walls I guess.