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What do you think is better Beta or Alpha

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Granock, Jul 28, 2013.

?

Better?

  1. Beta

    56.4%
  2. Alpha

    43.6%
  1. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    Messages:
    1,916
    Well did this post make me furious and violently headdesk onto the keyobard. It seems like you haven't actually thoroughly been playing beta.

    1. See what Vania said and add Drills to the count. Castles aren't obstacles that you just can't pass in Beta. I have no idea what you mean by camping. Have you ever played a classic match where tickets are 0 vs 0? Yeah, and that's not campy? Everyone is constantly on the offensive in Beta, only a few builders might stay back. Camping isn't even beneficial to you.
    2. So you are implying that the classic combat riddled with bugs isn't? I agree that large ping differences dominate in Beta, but so they do in Classic. Lag is impossible to fix and the guy with a good ping will have the upper hand in all games.
    3. This is the part that actually made me angry. Overpowered, what the fuck? The knife is so useless it gets used 0,1% of the time, the archers can no longer penetrate a knight's shield and they have less range as well.
    4. I don't know what you mean by blurry, perhaps you have the smooth filter toggled on.
    5. It really depends on the player, but at the moment the devs are implementing cooperative servers that will teach the newbs how to play the game before they get shred apart in normal matches.
    6. I agree with this part somewhat, though I like the fast movement, I've gotten so used to it that playing Classic now feels like swimming in molasse.
    7. I have had zero paper shield issues with bombs in Beta, you just have to be more precise with the shield aim rather than click RMB and move your cursor to left or right.
    8. Well if you like to have your whole screen blocked by menus when trying to perform simple tasks, yeah then I guess Classic UI is better. No idea how the buttons in Beta require trial and error, because they all have a pretty clear description of what they do when you hover your cursor over them..
     
    NinjaCell, Beef, AcidSeth and 6 others like this.
  2. Mehno

    Mehno Horde Gibber

    Messages:
    12
    There is nothing more to say.
    I also think that the transition from Alpha to Beta is really hard if you spent many time in Alpha :(
    That's also my problem and my main reason that Im still playing Alpha
     
    InsaneMTL likes this.
  3. amgtree

    amgtree Bison Rider

    Messages:
    482
    The great things about alpha
    • Fix jump distance
    • can't bomb jump with a ping higher than 200
    • getting stuck in 2 wide holes
    • Not being able to jump up 4 blocks
    • Can't walk while building
    • Complete cluster fuck of people make ing 10 thousand block tall towers that have bridges spamed everywere
    • Those towers kill you more than the enemy is
    • Always empty premium servers
    The great things about beta
    • People put doors wrong
    • No zombie fortress
    • Knight combat is connection based
    • Archers have 2 hearts
    • Builders pickaxe does crap against knights
    I think beta wins. Plus it gets better every update.
     
  4. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    I guess im a bit bias when I say this, but I honestly just see alpha as a nostalgia high and nothing else. When I see beta I just see a better game in general(badum tsh), less bugs and more content. Alpha is more of a rdm game then anything, the building is bare boned and generally boring, yet beta is full of interesting defences and offences. Plus mod potential and nuetral threats like sharks... I just don't see any reason to play alpha except for nostalgia and friends.
     
  5. Nighthawk

    Nighthawk gaurenteed shitter

    Messages:
    793
    Better is a pretty subjective word to use, but if I had to say something, I'd say Beta is better.

    HOWEVER. There are a few things that I absolutely hate about Beta; certain aspects that I believe should go back to being the way they were in Alpha:
    - Knight jabs need to stop slash charging. Rock-paper-scissors combat is broken until this gets fixed.
    - For the love of all that is holy, don't make wallhumping a feature. And if you're really dead-set on doing it, implement it in a smoother way; don't require Knights to jam the up key to ascend.
    - I've said this one before: Archers have gone from being a tactical ranged class to a spammy annoyance, not to mention far less effective at dealing damage.
    - Builders lost their deadly block-dropping! WHY?! One of the best things about Alpha was that even as a Builder, you could help defend the base by setting up block-dropping traps. Now, falling block damage is seriously nerfed, and there is no material that breaks within a single hit (though wood backwall breaks in two). If you want to be at all useful while the enemy is assaulting, you have to haul your butt to the hall, switch classes, and go back up to your high-up exit in order to prevent the enemy from getting in easily when you open the doors to attack them.
    - All classes should be able to light kegs. Are Knights special or something? Do they carry matches on them while Archers and Builders don't? Honestly. If you manage to get your hands on an enemy keg or something by scaling their base, you should be able to sabotage their operation with it.

    tl;dr:
    I would have no objections to Beta if...
    - Knight jabs stopped slash charging
    - Wallhumping was removed
    - Archers went back to the way they were in Alpha
    - Builders' block-dropping actually WORKED
    - Any class could light a keg
     
    Sarathos and ironballs like this.
  6. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    if knight jabs did this it would encourage jab spam in a big way. yea the shield stops jabs now but not nearly effective enough to make a really good comeback in a fight. If jabs did gain this attribute then a jab stopping a slash in mid air as the slash is about to hit makes no fucking sense. however slashing a knight then attempting to reslash him whilst being right against would warent a slash stopping jab. now this brings up jabs being too fast and should be reduced a tad in order to ballence out the powered up jab. I am dead set against clashing. clashing was the worst thing in classic and made it very hard to kill knights 2 or 3 at a time. it should stay at whoever charges their slash first wins.
     
  7. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    Well reasoned post Nighthawk but I disagree on a number of points. Jabs stuffing slashes seems like an obvious and beautiful change but we have to consider this idea very carefully. In a 1v1 situation this is clearly an obvious change but the problem is that slashes have to be overpowered. The majority of combat in KAG doesn't happen in 1v1 but in groups with all sorts of classes and projectiles being flung every which way. A combat based around rock paper scissors can not function if both sides are throwing out multiple options- knight combat only works to the degree it does because its based on spacing a timing in a way which allows superior players to overcome numerical disadvantage. That said I didn't say that this is an entirely bad idea but just that we have to be cautious with it.

    Wallhumping is crazy stupid why is it still a thing.

    While archers in the current state of beta are extremely under powered the intention for the class is much better than the current alpha archers. Alpha archers, with their low arrow output but high damage and stun abilities are ok in low player count games but get progressively stronger as the playercount increases to the point where squads of archers, combined with the broken coin system and the ubiquitous quarters are able to stall an entire game on their own, as shields cannot protect against volleys of charged arrows and the only possible responses are tunneling or bunnyhopping outposts which is very expensive and very risky. This is even worse than if knights had 1hko laser swords and power armour as this power of alpha archers is almost entirely defensive, meaning that unlike a game dominated by knights a game dominated by alpha archers is doomed to stalemate. Beta archers need to move forward to a beautiful new future of ninja flavoured infiltration and sabotage, not to the sepia toned nostalgia of cheap shots and endless stalemate.

    I'm kind of on the fence with block dropping. On the one hand it's kinda fun and it makes sense that dropping a brick on someone's head does a lot of damage but at the same time this is an essentially sedentary defence and makes offence really stupidly difficult in certain circumstances.

    Yeah archers with kegs would be cool.

    Also, beta is objectively a far superior game.
     
  8. One

    One I got 99 problems and my name is One Donator Tester

    Messages:
    641
    NO! NO! NO!

    I just had a 2v2 tdm match and we all went archer, it was the funnest time I have had in kag in a VERY VERY long time. The grappling hook and burst fire is really fun and makes the archer a fun fest rather then a bore/campywampy fest. This mobility is countered by the instadeath a knight can deal out with a single slash. The new archer is far better then the old archer and if it were changed back I would cry ;-;.
     
    Drafiks, FuzzyBlueBaron and AcidSeth like this.
  9. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    the only reason it should not change back to classic archer is this. GIVE KNIGHTS A CHANCE. in classic archers completely dominated with thier great numbers plus stun ability. it was impossible for even a group of knights to do anything at all. so this then forced the people who were knight to go archer and hence turned it into an archer based game. back then it was basically all about the archer against the knight who couldnt do shit unless the archer was on the field and the knight had a bomb. yea gather was different because it limited archers to only 1 but still thats just one instance and does not encompass the whole game.
     
  10. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    What one said. I will never bring back the alpha archer.

    Re: Changes to archer
    We're introducing a stun when within very close range for full charged arrows, so that if you get out of your tower you can actually do some damage to a knight, while still remaining fragile in melee. The time taken to charge an arrow is down, the time taken to charge a burst is increased - favouring single arrows when you can afford it and cutting down on the volley spam a little bit, though it's still there.
    Increases their offensive viability, so far it hasn't done anything appreciable to their defense that I've seen.
    MM is currently tweaking them, so anything could happen, haha, but the testers are making sure his changes are on track. We'll be giving them some more sabateur tools at some point I think so that they can at least sap factories if they get indoors, and give resistance to boats and siege.

    Re: wallhumping not being fixed official position is that while it's a bug, we'd like to get the gamemode stuff sorted asap - meaning MM finish challenges and I finished CTF. MM's challenges are just about done, and then he'll be back to bug stomping before CTF formal testing begins.
    I really haven't seen it do that much harm either, hilariously. You'd think units getting over anything if unobstructed would break the balance more, but it really just means you have to smack them off your walls every now and again, and that fights can happen over a larger vertical range.
    That said, we'll fix it.

    Re: Jab cancels slash
    Who are you, Raron? :^)
    Feel free to mod it in yourself and see why we're staying away from it. Play with a few 100+ ping players and you'll start raising eyebrows as to what happened, and if you don't, they certainly will. Positioning and timing is the rock paper scissors of KAG, at least for the most part. Contrary outlined the reasoning behind it pretty well.
     
    NinjaCell, Sarathos and One like this.
  11. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    Messages:
    449
    oh thanks the lawd slash will remain supreme ruler over all mankind :3 thx geti :thumbs_up:
     
  12. Boea

    Boea Such Beta

    Messages:
    653
    I still prefer archers in a more combat oriented role to keep knights in check, but it's a hard role when it's undeniably squishy.

    As for being saboteurs, underground, enclosed, or defended buildings seem very unreachable as is.
     
  13. ironballs

    ironballs Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    32
    For now its surely classic.
     
  14. Hella

    Hella The Nightmare of Hair Global Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,655
    As much as I've been slowly warming to aspects of the new archer, I still hate being squashed by a knight so damn quickly. I prefer playing of Norill's Battle of Wizards server, where they have 3 hearts still, as it just pushes them into a situation where I can actually go vaguely close to an enemy without being rapidly gibbed by a sword or builder with no chance of escape.
     
  15. Shadlington

    Shadlington THD Team THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    1,562
    Honestly, I find classic unplayable these days. Beta is so much more fun.
     
  16. sinnertie

    sinnertie Ministry of Hatred Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. PumpkinStars - [Pk#] - Inactive

    Messages:
    252
    In my opinion both versions have their pros and cons and it's hard to decide which one is better. It is all about what you like more personally. Classic is giving me more fun while playing, but I enjoy Beta as well, however it is not as addictive as Classic for me. Beta is giving us much more possibilities in game progress since it's way more and better developed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
    BrokenWings likes this.
  17. As I'm sure others have already stated, Alpha and Beta are very different games. It is as simple as that. It is like comparing Mozart and One Direction, it can't be done.
     
  18. Hella

    Hella The Nightmare of Hair Global Moderator Donator Tester

    Messages:
    1,655
    It depends which one of the two you are calling Mozart.
     
  19. ironballs

    ironballs Catapult Fodder

    Messages:
    32
    Mozart obviously the oldest one ;)
     
  20. SpideY

    SpideY Hear Me Roar Staff Alumni Donator

    Messages:
    511
    Atm, classic is better for the competitive scene.
    Beta is way better for fun !
     
    ironballs likes this.