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Why I believe KAB has received so much negative feedback.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fucu, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. Fucu

    Fucu Ballista Bolt Thrower

    Alright, just to make this clear, I don't feel self-entitled to anything. The developers had the right to take the game in any direction they wanted. If they're happy with the results, then I can be happy for them. :) What I can't stand, is this notion that we should all just deal with it. It's something that has been rattling my brain every time I hear someone come up with such a lame excuse. It's either "Deal with it" or "If you don't like it, mod it." With that sort of mindset, how will the game stand up on it's own without modding support? Again, I feel like the beta is trying really hard to cater to a whole new audience. It's either losing or has already lost the support of classic players that have either became too cynical or don't care enough.

    Some of us have been here for a very long time. I was never really involved with the community until recently, but have played since the golden age of archers. Even if some changes shocked me in the past, I always have loved classic. I've watched this game change and grow for so long, and was more excited for the beta than perhaps the average person. I guess that's why once I played it, I felt so put off. They were nothing alike except for a similar art style and three classes.

    Now there's plenty of talk about how classic might be able to be implemented into beta. The way I see it, notched climbing would still be out, as with classic knight combat, archer knives would still be in, and all that would change would be shops and a flag.

    In my opinion, if there is a demo with the steam release, that will be the end of classic. Ever so slowly, the player base will dwindle. The influx of free-to-players will decrease rapidly, and the current leftover classic premiums will die out. Guards would either move on or retire and classic would be nothing but a husk. IRC will always be there to support classic, but I still doubt it would do as much good as it does now. Perhaps this is my way of talking my way through "dealing with it," but it's still sad nevertheless. It's a hard pill to swallow, but classic is done for. I think I'll eventually be able to deal with the fact that classic will one day be dead, but I won't just deal with the beta. I support the classic and the work that the devs put into it. However, I will not just force myself to enjoy beta. Again, it's hard to tell if beta will succeed, but I have suspicions that it will. All I can basically do is wish the devs good luck and enjoy classic until either me or friends begin to leave. I only regret not becoming a part of the community sooner than I did.:)
  2. Sir_Edward

    Sir_Edward Builder Stabber

    I quite enjoy your metaphor :P

    to be candid I understand the whole community property philosophy, open source, make it into what you want, yada yada yada. but the truth is it would defeat the purpose of having a paid version if people can make the free version cooler. even if they made it open source for people to mod, almost all the stuff in classic is hardcoded and so it would have to be reverse engineered. barring the fact it would take enormous amounts of time, it STILL wouldn't be as good as the beta, because by the time it took one full mod (a total conversion type mod) to be produced, the beta would have 10.

    i'd say the devs are correct in not continuing to kick a dead horse, but now that the genie's out of the bottle on the beta this is the future of kag.

    I applaud the team for its good sense to polish the diamond instead of the turd.
    Monsteri likes this.
  3. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    You misunderstood me, I think it was the devs choice whether or not to make the game moddable, and if they choose not to I'm fine with that. I don't like the fact that they didn't fix many of the bugs in classic but they ditched the whole thing so it doesn't matter :)
    </br>--- merged: Jul 30, 2013 12:01 AM ---</br>

    This guy knows what's gonna happen, I was pretty sure of this the moment the silent beta came out and it was essentially confirmed when the headline for the beta being release was "Buckle your seatbelt Dorothy, because alpha is going bye-bye" or maybe I took that too literally
  4. Titmau5

    Titmau5 Bison Rider Staff Alumni

    KAG Classic; Always and forever <33
    Evan5567 and 16th like this.
  5. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    This is really just another example of the same problem plaguing this community.

    Having opinions is fantastic, even negative ones are perfectly fine. The thing is, y'all get hella salty about stuff. I ain't judging, I mean if you go back far enough in the post history you'll find Neat and I duking it out about archer balance for literally pages and pages of 2000 word posts because we were so buttmad. The devs actually had to tell us to stfu for a bit. But really, having opinions about KAG and caring a lot about this opinions is a good thing so long as you are able to express it positively and productively.

    While I personally think KAB is pretty good its completely valid for you to think otherwise. Say what you think! Say it plainly, go in to detail, and provide evidence. The reason that KAB has developed in the way it has is because great thinkers like Monsteri have provided their opinions, in detail, with evidence. KAG changes on a daily basis, if you don't like some things about it's current state say something- even better change it yourself and give it to Geti. I've seen multiple occaisons where peeps on the forum or on IRC will be likely "yo geti change this pls" and he'll change it immediately and the change will be playable next patch. I haven't been keeping up with development that much but I believe the current bomb jumping physics was written by Arcrave and implemented since Arcrave and several others suggested it. You do have the power to make KAG a better game and the only ones you have to blame for your disappointment are yourselves. And MM. He writes terrible code.
  6. LostPix

    LostPix Base Burner

    MM and his old classy spaghetti style code writing.
  7. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    :heart: MM code 4eva
    Believe ur amazing!.jpg
  8. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    I'd just like to add that notching hasn't been removed. It's still possible to do notch jumping, but with 2x1 holes, like so:
    The only reason you don't see this popularly being used is because there are way more viable options. And that's good.
    FuzzyBlueBaron likes this.
  9. DrZaloski

    DrZaloski Shopkeep Stealer

    Oh god, I remember that archer-stalemate-balance forum. That just devolved into all sorts of butthurt from different balance perspectives.

    Anyway, although I still have a soft spot for Alpha, I just don't understand how some of you think it's LESS buggy and has LESS balance issues than Beta. How is that true in the slightest? Alpha hit detection is embarrassing, it's piss-easy to just fly across the map, archers in a big tower can make a quick match last for hours, ladders>everything, it's near impossible to tell who an archer's aiming at until you've already been shot, every sword fight ever devolves into a bomb-fight contest of who has the best internet connection, almost every match is the same, tunneler are everywhere, and I randomly respawn about 2-3 times a game. Need I go on?

    Sure, there are a lot of problems with the Beta, but come on, it pales in comparison to the Alpha. Also, I personally think making actually legit ways to climb towers is better than everyone just abusing a glitch because it's faster and team-selective.
  10. Mellian-Quar-Xililix

    Mellian-Quar-Xililix Bison Rider


    Now its just who has better internet connection because bombs are now crap.

    Jabbing and slashing is still heavily dependent on lag. Its more annoying with the added directions since you have to be more precise to hit.
    16th likes this.
  11. Monsteri

    Monsteri Slower Than Light Tester

    No, you're just bad.
  12. eamono

    eamono Arsonist


    1. I agree that lag is a problem, but without lag-compensation it will always be a problem, and I'm pretty sure the devs have other things to do besides that

    2. Bombs aren't crap, they kill archers, they kill builders, and leave knights with 1 heart maximum. And bomb jumps are pretty awesome too

    3. o noes u have to actually CLICK WHERE YOU WANT TO ATTACK now, added directions suck :(
  13. [​IMG]
    tlc2011, AnRK, DrZaloski and 13 others like this.
  14. BlueLuigi

    BlueLuigi :^) Forum Moderator Donator Tester

    I agree with part of what you say, but I can't quite agree with all of it, there were things I enjoyed about the beta, but I've never come even close to having the amount of fun I had in alpha, you can argue all you want about realism or what makes the game stale, but there were many of us who played that game 24/7 in that form, and in the end isn't that what you're looking for? For your game to be so damn good that people will drop their life just to play it? How many have done that for beta? Just curious.

    Of course I'm going to be somewhat bias, I've seen changes over time slowly change this game some for the better some for the worse, the sad thing is most seemed to be for the worse, I believe the reason a lot of classic players are disillusioned is because at least most of the ones I spoke with had seen so many things go wrong and knew they were already going to be bad, were vocal about it, but they still happened. No versioning system really made this annoying, if there was a versioning system we could say "Okay you make your bad changes I'll stay on 190", but without it we're shooting in the dark and finding any older version where anyone saved the client and server is just not happening, due to this changes that were for the worse alpha, considering how long the alpha was (This isn't a complaint just a statement), meant that most changes weren't short lived and it was out long enough where most people would hit their cap of bothering with the game sometime before it's inevitable release.

    Also please understand that those of us who bitch about the game never hated it, it's because you like something enough that you bitch about changes, not because you hate it. If you hate it you move the fuck on as soon as possible.
  15. Kurokitty

    Kurokitty Naughty Black Kitten

    I prefer the alpha still, I don't want the game reworked so much. Just add new stuff and more customizations. Just my personal opinion on the whole matter.
  16. studios

    studios Shipwright

    After approaching KAG again from a half year leave my opinion is the new features are cool, but... everything is so cluttered. I might eventually get used to it, sure, but it still is a very cluttered interface. Bases are clusterfucks of workshops. There isn't an easy way to tell how much breath your character has under water. Skybridges literally ruin public gold servers. The graphics DO NOT bode well with the complex GUI (it seems to me the graphics have gotten worse even from non-beta, somehow).
    bergice likes this.
  17. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    Really? I don't find the interface very confusing, and IMO the graphics are really good-looking, much better then classic

    But then again, I'm probably used to it
  18. Jlordo

    Jlordo Nobody Donator

    Why is this in Suggestions and Ideas. :oops:

    Anyway, if you say KAG Beta is cluttered, you should have played the first silent release without halls. IMO, the interface is easy enough, though like eamono, I'm probably use to it. It's very easy to tell how much air your character has through the screen tint color. You got a problem with skybridges? Shoot one bomb arrow at the base and it all falls down. And the new graphics are great.
    16th is probably gonna come in here as I have seen him posting in all anti-beta threads where he will say beta sucks, and other nostalogic players will disagree with me, but I'm posting this anyway.
  19. DrZaloski

    DrZaloski Shopkeep Stealer

    I've have had some lag issues with the Beta sometimes, sword fights are sometimes bullshit, but remember what we're comparing it to! We are talking about something changing, not something entirely different. How many people in the right mind could say the combat is more laggy in the Beta than in the Alpha? It is flawed, but it's not AS flawed.

    Also, in the Alpha, bombs where OP as shit, they were the dominate method. Honestly, a vast majority of my deaths in Alpha are from bombs, and a vast majority of my kills are from bombs. The knight class is more of a bombardier class in Alpha. Now in Beta, bombs are used for their actual purpose, to counter ranged enemies. Also you usually start with a free bomb after early game, and buildings are much more simple and frail, so of course bombs were nerfed for Beta. And if bombs were still as powerful as they are in Alpha, that completely illegitimizes (shut up, it's a word because I say so) satchels and water-bombs, along with ACTUAL sword play, which makes the combat devolve into only using the dominate strategy, bombs. That kills a lot of the new diversity added to the combat in Beta.

    And for KAG taking up 24/7 of my time, KAG stopped being my most-played game long before Beta started. I played KAG obsessively pretty much starting hats were introduced, but stopped before Beta, not because of changes, but quite frankly the opposite. Because I was bored with Alpha, and after the MOLE server went down and I stopped seeing as many familiar usernames, I slowly realized I only really played the game because I enjoyed the community, and so I barely played any more. Once I started playing the silent and now open Beta, despite seeing very little familiar usernames, I enjoyed playing the game again, because it was a different game with the same base idea that I fell in love with in the first place.
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Sarathos like this.
  20. kedram

    kedram Drill Rusher Tester

    ever since i heard of beta i knew it was going to be way better then classic. of course not right away but i knew in the end it would far exceed anything classic ever hoped to accomplish. right now as it is i have noticed that skill really does matter in beta. no matter how good i ever got in classic i was always killed by the knight behind the one i was trying to kill or i was killed because the enemy or me had a major ping difference. so far in beta everyone has a long sword but its not nearly as annoying as in classic. there are a couple people with insane long swords in beta but that just has to do with their connection to the server. now instead of dying so easily in like i was in classic im able to easily take on 3 to 4 enemies at once because movement is much faster and easier to manipulate. i noticed when i went from a month of beta to one game of classic i felt like a complete fatass as i could not move like i could in beta. when they fix the attack sprite bug that should mop up all the problems for knight. archer is fine where it is. builder needs to be buffed somehow. im not sure if giving shield bash to knights is a good idea because then they would be as op as archers in the very begining of beta. all in all im liking beta very much because knight combat is extremely fluent :)