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Why I believe KAB has received so much negative feedback.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fucu, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. jfurndoifu

    jfurndoifu Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    37
    I agree with you about the notch jumping but what about halls that basically destroyed the game in the aspect of building huge bases and siege and made the game more about knights then builders what do you think about that not saying it's bad but it should be re-thinked?
     
  2. Madoka

    Madoka Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    38
    What?
    The halls encouraged building organization a lot due to the limited worshops conditioned by the quantity of peasants and the need to set them up near the hall (consequently forcing teams to make more horizontal, compact buildings, like actual castles). Back in the classic KAG you would see tiny stone towers with quarters behind them spreaded everywhere on the map. There was no way to discern between the open battlefield and the team's base, and matches oftenly felt like there was no goal at all.

    Builder's magic block summoning was overpowered on KAG. Now the class balance seems almost perfect for me.
     
    Monsteri and Contrary like this.
  3. RougeCupcake

    RougeCupcake Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    235
    It is just a big change from KAA(KAG Alpha) to KAB(KAG Beta). Nothing is wrong with KAB, I like it more than Alpha, but it is just such a big change, no one is used to it. It is a lot more complicated when you do not know it. Especially workshops! Once you get to know it, you love it.
     
  4. GreenRock

    GreenRock Base Burner

    Messages:
    347
    I've refrained from playing KAB because the first few builds were absolutely unplayable for me.

    This thread made me go check out the newest one, and it's not all that bad. I was able to play through two whole matches, and was actually having fun with beta for the first time. If you haven't played the most recent beta build and you're one of those classic loving fangirls, please proceed to do so immediately. Itworked4me.

    So, speaking from a perspective belonging to a player who prefers classic, these are the remaining reasons as to why we haven't migrated to beta:
    1. Circle Menus. This element might be dismissed as something irrelevant to the core gameplay, but it is crucial to the migration. We classic players have grown on these things. They're found everywhere, from class selection to shops to tunnels. The circle menu is the language the classic players speak. There are no circle menus in beta. Instead, there are big, fat, ugly buttons. Everywhere.
    2. Factories. "What are these things. Why do we have to wait so long for it to produce a warboat?" Factories automate the production of the new vehicles and boats. Classic players want the old shops back that have resource parameters for producing an item. I honestly prefer the classic shops, as many others do. 1000 wood + 300 stone = warboat crate. 500 wood + 500 stone = mounted bow crate.
    3. Logs. Complicating something that shouldn't be complicated at all. Simple resource gathering. Add in the homicidal saw, and it's the most frustrating thing ever.
    4. Coins. Where are they. Killing someone in classic and getting sprayed by a flurry of pixelated blood and shiny coins was, like, the best thing ever. I understand beta has moved away from them, but cmon. Fighting isn't fun anymore.
    5. Moving vehicles are about as clunky as week old shit.
    KAB has a learning curve that the classic players don't want to learn. IMO, KAG wasn't about a learning curve at all. It's one of those really simple games that's a lot of fun to play, but KAB strayed a little too far.

    On a positive note, KAB excels at fluidity. Sprites breeze through doors and ladders, which would normally slow you down as all hell in classic. It might be perceived as being "slippery" but the devs mentioned they're tweaking all the movement stuff, meaning it can only improve. Builders are way faster in KAB than in classic, which is super cool. Water is nicer in KAB, not only because of the boats but because it's dynamic. You can flood tunnels and stuff, which is p cool. Drills are the coolest new item in beta. If the devs were to throw out all the vehicles and special arrows and keep the drill I would be completely cool with that cause it's really fun to use.
     
    Sarathos likes this.
  5. [​IMG]
     
    tlc2011, LolFox24, Classic and 5 others like this.
  6. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    148
    So now you're not getting paid huh?

    :bird:-off you filthy mercenary.
     
  7. Crabmaster

    Crabmaster Bison Rider
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    322
    Before playing BETA I had played classic for a heck of a long time, and was excited to find out about the silent beta and join it. And I have only gone back to classic 4-5 times since(3 of those were to test a texturepack I am making... ._.). Through bugs and lag I have put up with a lot till it finally started smoothing out and becoming more refined and now days very enjoyable to play, and only once did I turn off beta to play classic instead, because that build at the time was a bit buggy and I wanted to see how much has changed since the days of classic.

    The few times I have played classic instead I have found myself unable to play more than zombie mode because in my opinion Beta is so very superior! Everything feels so much faster, smoother, good looking, fun in the way I like a game, and even the "complex" stuff like building factories seems simple because I am a fast learner; ontop of that I find the community on Beta to have a lot less annoying people due to needing to pay money for an account instead of people making throw away accounts they can troll on with no problem, and also Beta solved my least favorite part of KAG, the mass tunneling and termiting, being there are much more fun and faster ways of taking down a tower people don't do this as often(I will admit I never understood the logic of spending 20 minutes simply just...digging forward...and then upward...I find it is only a strategy that is entertaining in the case of someone who just wants to win and nothing else).
     
    LolFox24 likes this.
  8. AnRK

    AnRK Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    641
    2 things annoy me about beta and it's simply building/tech clutter and territory:

    Builder needs his pickaxe back to it's knight smashing glory and needs to have less minecrafting to do; less factories, less automation, less seeds (trees respawning in pre-defined areas would be better if you ask me), just 3 or 4 simple shops that you can upgrade with a simplified research procedure and resources ala classic, where you get a certain variety of shit from and actually have to pay for stuff. That and getting some mats from smashing stuff, again something restricting a "hammerer" style combat builder, and wiping the arse of some thick fuck builder that's made an abomination. I imagine however getting rid of mat recycling was due to the "my idea for a tower is better then yours" arguments that were/probably are still frequent in classic as much as anything else.

    Territory has no value at all, as bases are merely a collection of shops since you need to spend so much time building every shop you rarely see decent towers creating a frontline. And that means that there's no real focal point of the map, that tied in with everything been spammed due to automated production and stuff having much less value seems to have resulted in a much less focused game. Classic could get stale and attacking was near impossible in many situations, but at least in the attack/defense cycle you generally knew where your team was up to and how strong your defenses were and vice versa.

    That's all based on slightly older versions, haven't played any of any versions out in the last couple of weeks, but doesn't sound like enough has changed on those two fronts. I've still got plenty of faith in the devs and there's plenty of positives in the new build, the engine seems pretty solid and alot of the new graphics & GUI is awesome if you ask me - especially been able to easily pick up the items you actually fucking want. The game just needs more focus that's all if you ask me. I wanna see decent forts again that create a sense of territory, within a more fluid game where you can actually fucking attack them, and all the fancy new items to get a good ironing out and have proper value by costing mats and coins (which need to make a comeback if only for that purpose), it's not inconceivable for that to get sorted out.
     
    Sarathos likes this.
  9. RougeCupcake

    RougeCupcake Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    235
    I agree with GreenRock. The first few Beta builds were just plain unplayable for me. I absolutely disliked them. I went onto KAB every couple of days to see if any new updates, and I LOVE the latest one. I recommend trying it before you say "I don't like KAB."
    Only thing I don't like about it, is the amount of people, not that there is to much, there is not enough!
     
    GreenRock likes this.
  10. Solomon-Grundy

    Solomon-Grundy Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    56
    Another thing you gotta keep in mind is that when KAG gets a proper release or goes to Steam, the learning curve you're talking about is not for the couple hundred Classic->Beta (or Gold) players, but 1000's of people who've never played the game before, and who probably can't be bothered to learn all the intricacies of factories and the research tree. They'll just think it sucks, leave a bad review, and move on. Worse, your proper reviewers will do the same.

    Classic was pick-up-and-play, Beta not so much.
     
    bergice, Sarathos and GreenRock like this.
  11. eamono

    eamono Arsonist

    Messages:
    498

    1. I like your name
    2. A proper tutorial is probably in the works (considering their are maps called builer_tutorial and archer_tutorial
     
  12. Solomon-Grundy

    Solomon-Grundy Shopkeep Stealer

    Messages:
    56
    Thanks!
    Yes, but do you honestly think the average player wants to / is going to play a tutorial before playing?
     
  13. that's what nowadays you are obligated to do in every multiplayer game
     
  14. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    148
    If people can't be bothered to play a tutorial before ditching a game they bought for $10 -$25 then I really don't mind them leaving.
    Although the tutorials will probably be free.
     
  15. GreenRock

    GreenRock Base Burner

    Messages:
    347
    Obligated, but not required.



    This coming from a guy that regularly bans players who "aren't contributing to the team" or are "being useless." How do you know you're not banning little kids off servers?
     
    sheek likes this.
  16. maybe because i dont ban people unless they are griefing/not doing anything at all
     
  17. Iamaclay

    Iamaclay Shark Slayer

    Messages:
    148
    GreenRock, it's Ej. He's a global moderator for a reason.
    Don't get involved in this back-and-forth.
     
  18. 8x

    8x Elimination Et Choix Traduisant la Realité Forum Moderator Tester Official Server Admin
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    1,314
    Some ago i got the feeling that new players will enjoy KAB more than Classic ones... they won't say the things we think like 'omg no drawbridges omg no notch climbing omg builder aint fun anymore', they will accept it as it comes. Something, considering they're a different case, like old and new Ace of Spades players.
    The best is to come, don't forget that it's an unfinished game.
     
    Iamaclay likes this.
  19. Contrary

    Contrary The Audacious Paramount of Explosive Flight Donator Tester

    Messages:
    2,196
    AnRK, addressing your post not because it is the worst one or the one that I disagree with the most, just the one that looks like the most thought has been put into it.

    Resource cycling was to prevent infinite repairing. Like when you entomb yourself and and enemy is hammering at the block but you last hit it and immediately use the resources to place a new block.

    This is because of all the water everywhere lol. It's hard to build a lot of towers when everything is lake. When Mazey's no water no opinions server was up you actually did see a lot of towers.

    I think that this is the first time we are actually able to see decent looking buildings, proper enclosed buildings with lots of room and doors that aren't 50 feet in the air. I do agree that all the new items do need reevaluation but IMO coins is a major step backwards. I think that automated production reduces the sense of agency on the part of the player and promotes a lot of waiting in line kind of stuff but coins were a really inelegant mechanic.

    That's really not the attitude anyone should be taking. If you have a valid complaint please express it calmly in an appropriate channel. We don't want it scumming up other threads like we see a lot but we really do want to hear feedback. As the moderator who has made several horrible mistakes I can safely say that we are not infallible and that if you see bullshit you should call us out on it.
     
    FuzzyBlueBaron and Sarathos like this.
  20. jfurndoifu

    jfurndoifu Builder Stabber

    Messages:
    37
    I don't know what Kag Classic servers you played on but I normal played on the bigger ones 34 player servers and there would be two huge bases for each team with tons of workshops and I know that the compact thing is a good part of the beta but limiting how many workshops in my opinion is not.