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Forum Winter is Coming

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by FuzzyBlueBaron, Mar 15, 2018.

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  1. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    @FunATuns, please avoid escalating; @norill probably could have skipped the parting barb but as bait it's pretty tame, so please2unrustle your jimmies.

    I would, I confess, appreciate not having words put in my mouth.

    If you took time to revisit my posts, an observant reader will notice I neither state there will be a change in the rules (@mcrifel), nor do I say any of this comes down to me disliking particular people (@FunATuns).

    For the sake of clarity, which appears in short supply amid the sea of salt, let me be specific and particular:
    1. No rules or official policy have changed, nor are any changes planned at this time.
    2. What has changed is how I, fbb, plan to go about exercising my right as administrator to be lenient with community members who break the rules.
    3. This change is relevant to the community at large---and hence got an announcement---because with a shift in how I administer mercy comes the end of a long-standing tradition (wherein I would strenuously oppose the removal of almost any member unless there was no other way).
    4. This has precious little to do with personal affection, or lack thereof (in point of interest, I like bunnie, and have stood to prevent his permanent removal on a few occasions).
    5. This has everything to do with my realising, perhaps too late, that just because I wish to give people multiple chances to get themselves straight doesn't mean they are willing to use those opportunities.
    Them's the facts. If you want to be upset with me for relinquishing some of my naïveté... Eh. I guess you can do that. There is, iirc, a long-standing tradition for blaming me for all manner of things.

    Finally:
    I have. Repeatedly. It's why he's still around to shitpost in the first place. :huh?:
    IIRC, I was not the one who brought his name up; specifically because this isn't some dumb grudge against a single person. It's the marking of the changing seasons. Of me recognising I'm a little less callow, a little more grim, than I ever used to be.

    Don't make the mistake of assuming the map has any bearing on the terrain. This isn't about bunnie, although he may feature in it. It's about coming to terms with what *is*.
     
  2. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

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    1,293
    orly? this post could as well have been a PM to me lol

    i kek'd
     
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  3. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Don't go giving yourself affectations, bunbun darling. This is bigger than just you. As I said: the map, is not the territory.
     
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  4. Mexer

    Mexer Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. No Control - to be deleted. inactive

    Messages:
    137
    Just don't be shitheads.
     
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  5. FunATuns

    FunATuns Builder Carry Donator

    Messages:
    114
    Lol I just want !fight back
     
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  6. Didgedy

    Didgedy Arsonist

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    82
    1. Maybe march is not the best month of the year to make a post titles ''Winter is Coming''.

    2. IMO, the KAG community is fine at the moment. The salt levels are just right, the shitposting is all in good fun (not derogatory to anyone), and new players are treated pretty respectfully. I would rather not be part of a community where I have to fear the admins rather than respect them & the community to play nice.
     
    jonipro, Psiklaw, Blue_Tiger and 5 others like this.
  7. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    You made an announcement, in the announcement section with an administrator tag on. I can't post in this section and usually there are proper game or forum announcements here. I wouldn't say it is the place to put your personal updates. So when I see a post like this I assume it is from the entire admin team.

    Saying things like:

    "Just a small community related announcement."

    "I've discussed them with other staff and friends in the community management gig."

    only adds to it.

    So if this: "If you deliberately make a ruckus on one of our platforms, have a history of doing so, and should have damn well known better then you will be removed from that platform. Permanently."

    isn't a rule and just your new way of handling things. Why post it? It raises a lot of questions and makes the admin team seem unstable. Because apparently admins can now do whatever they please like banning people without proper reason. It might not be a rule, but it is still stupid.

    All in all this is a confusing thread that shouldn't exist.

    I am sorry for being a bit hostile but I am not one to sugarcoat things. I just want the best for the community.
     
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  8. Mexer

    Mexer Ballista Bolt Thrower
    1. No Control - to be deleted. inactive

    Messages:
    137
    :rollseyes:
    let's not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  9. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    Idk. Here in the southern hemisphere it seems pretty accurate, meteorologically speaking.
    I'll address the salt levels in my reply to mcrifel below.

    "Not derogatory to anyone" is somewhat at odds with the discord---which is generally tamer than ingame---featuring slurs toward race, gender, orientation and capacity on a fairly regular basis, I would opine.

    "...respect them" there's a bitter-sweet irony here, Didgedy. That sentiment? That's the attitude I took on administration with. It's still, in my heart of hearts, what I believe. And yet here we are. Funny. I wonder what ever could have happened to bring us here... (protip: having people repeatedly abuse the freedom you give them? It gets old).

    If you truly feel you need to fear the admins here, then I'm sorry to hear that. That wasn’t my intention.

    Unless, ofc, you had plans to repeatedly push and break rules and then push and break the second/third/fourth/fifth/etc. chances you get given.

    If that's your gig then, yes, you are right to be afraid.
     
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  10. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    From the bottom up:
    Thank you, I appreciate it. I think you're the first.
    Yeah, I'm hearing that a lot. It's possibly true, although maybe it's fairer to say that it could have been presented better. Sorry about that.
    I hear the confusion and I'm sorry for that. The context for this personal shift being of community interest boils down to a few points:
    • Like it or not, there's a fair amount of discretion involved in administering the rules;
    • Dislike me or not, I'd suggest my reputation for being the "bleeding heart" admin is fairly well established;
    • Predictably or not, there's been an ongoing history of some (not all) people blatantly, and repeatedly, misusing the second chances my bleeding-heart discretion gives them.
    And, for various reasons:
    • I'm tired of the bullshit.
    The material upshot of all this being users, who find themselves on the wrong side of the rules, won't necessarily have a sympathetic fbb ear to lean on any more.

    Maybe that didn't deserve its own post, my conceit. It certainly deserved a more carefully worded post, my apologies.
    ----

    As do we all.

    In the end the forums, discord, ingame---they're all still the same places they were before. Except there'll be less of me. Less 'goodmin fbb'.

    Because I'm tired.

    Tired of being the meat in the sandwich between users, staff, and the inevitable misunderstandings; of having people assume that every move I make that doesn't make obvious sense to them must be terrible & a sign that I am terrible; of, honestly, being taken for granted.

    Not that y'all owe me any favours, ofc; but to consistently give rule-breakers (who clearly enjoy the community & game) another shot to fit in---and consistantly have it spat back in your face for lols? That's been a part of the fabric of this community, as I've run it, for years now. And with this announcement, it's gone.

    I don't want to inspire fear (except where it belongs), I don't want to wallow in self-pity (although I'm sure that's what this looks like), I don't really (if I'm honest) want to be making this announcement at all.

    I just felt I should let you all know, even if I didn't really know how best to do it---for better or worse, for this admin and in some small way for the rest of you: winter is here. ::(:
     
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  11. SirDangalang

    SirDangalang Lvl. 128 MissingNo. Donator

    Messages:
    235
    Eh I understand this, typically I think this is why I would never like to be an admin in any capacity on any game. :eek:

    The difficult thing is to strike that balance between policing common decency in a objective binary manner vs encouraging the community to mesh together in a way that enhances the positive aspects of the community.
    Both aspects are within the responsibility of the admin as their right and honestly are free to choose how polarised they approach administering the role.

    Just because we may not like the idea of a more rigorous approach doesn't mean it's not appropriate; imo FBB has shown to always be a mediator first from browsing the forums as we are human beings not algorithms who can detach from being a member of the community itself.

    It is in an human admin's good nature (which FBB is abundant of imo :smug:) to encourage players to better themselves from past mistakes to encourage a positive community, however at a certain point should we be forcing admins to do this in situations where the method does not work?

    The problem here is that we are arguing on a grey area that should not exist. If someone clearly breaks the stated forum rules no matter how likeable or influential they are in a community they should not be exempt right?

    I like how this parallels in my mind to a discussion about whether prisons should focus on rehabilitation or punishment when dealing with rule-breakers. ::P:

    P.S. My signature has never been more appropriate than today, heh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
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  12. king-george

    king-george Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

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    284
    this could've been a profile post, not an entire thread in the announcements tab
    please remove this thread, I want to read actual news on the game in the announcements, not some admin stuff like this
     
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  13. AmestriStephen

    AmestriStephen Bison Rider Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    335
    yall need to chill... if you dont want to read this then dont and piss off
     
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  14. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    Saying the post doesn't belong here is kinda stupid. The grouping (announcement tab) is literally called "Game, website and forum news and information from the KAG team"
     
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  15. blackjoker77777

    blackjoker77777 Ballista Bolt Thrower Tester
    1. Zen Laboratories

    Messages:
    441
    What about we all take a deep breath?
     
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  16. king-george

    king-george Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester

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    284
    I think announcements about the "game, website or forum" should not be about something we already know:
    Forum Rules:
    I want news that tell me something about the game. As many have already said, if you want to be more strict as an admin then you shouldn't make a thread about it.
    And to be completely honest, when I read the title I genuinely thought that they were going to add winter textures to the game (that would be kind of weird since it's spring, but whatever). But no, I got this drama instead. Now that's important.
     
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  17. mcrifel

    mcrifel Bison Rider Staff Alumni Tester
    1. MIST

    Messages:
    582
    Guys calm down, re saying things that have already been said won't help anyone.
     
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  18. Didgedy

    Didgedy Arsonist

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    82
    Oh right, I forgot about half of the entire world. Silly me :/

    This is an issue some people might not have the same viewpoint as you. The way I see it, there is a big difference between personal attacks and derogatory racial/sexist/etc remarks. Considering the playerbase is very diverse in all categories, I can understand that it can make some people uncomfortable to have your ''group'' attacked by a lowlife alcoholic from a second world country, and I am sure many people might disagree with me, but I do not consider group attacks to actually hurt anyone significantly enough to warrant a ban.

    I would argue that racist/sexist comments should be allowed to be said and be allowed to get called out as such. Wide blanket attacks rarely do harm most people.The demeanour of the trash-talking should be a significant factor in deciding if it really is harmful behavior. When attacks start getting personal is when they start getting actually harmful to the person receiving them. I remember a guy on the EU servers a few years back (Hans something) that behaved like an utter tit to the point that it became a distraction, so he got kicked by the community on a regular basis.

    In essence, I believe that moderating should be concerned about personal attacks and people spamming the chat, rather than shit-talking. Feel free to disagree, of course.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 17, 2018 ---
    This was an announcement, one that claims to impact the community, so we are going to have to read this if we want to know whats going on.
    By the same token, if you have a problem with your country announcing ''We are going to begin relaxing regulations for police officers arresting you, so watch out, people!'', you wouldn't exactly not read the announcement.
     
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  19. FuzzyBlueBaron

    FuzzyBlueBaron Warm, Caring, Benign, Good and Kind Philanthrope Global Moderator Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. The Young Blood Collective - [YB]

    Messages:
    2,508
    I hear you; but at the same time, to be fair, the thread title does carry the "forum" tag quite prominently.

    I believe I can see your argument; however, I guess I would raise the counterpoint that oft-times what looks like a "wide blanket" attack to an onlooker can count as a deeply "personal" attack to the persons in that category.

    For example:
    If you've grown up having a particular set of words regularly used to belittle & alienate you, to degrade your friends and family, then even if you encounter those words in a completely different context---even if they're not aimed at you---they'll hurt. If you've been slapped regularly enough, then even observing a playful slap between randoms can immediately put you back in that bad headspace. Psychologically, it's not dissimilar to the mechanics of vets with PTSD triggering flashbacks in stressful situations.

    Not to say the goal here is to build an oasis for speshul snowflakes, but imo it's a simple matter of human decency to avoid words/phrases that are commonly known to serve little purpose apart from referencing shit others might find painful.
    ----

    As a meta observation: I think people are doing pretty well with what could definitely be a powderkeg of a topic; but as a pre-emptive reminder to people, do take @blackjoker77777's advice while reading and especially while posting:
     
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  20. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    296
    That moment when a community is so dead that an announcement like this is perceived as a witch hunt on 1 person. That said, what is the point of an announcement like this when the community is that dead, lmao.
     
    Biurza likes this.
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