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Tweaks Better Trap Blocks 1.1

Makes your team's trap blocks passable from above when pressing S (instantly!), and from below

  1. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Haxor

    Messages:
    590
    ShnitzelKiller submitted a new resource:

    Better Trap Blocks - Makes your team's trap blocks passable from above when pressing S (instantly!), and from below

    Read more about this resource...

    trapblock_use1.gif trapblock_use2.gif
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
  2. bunnie

    bunnie Haxor Tester

    Messages:
    1,319
    Very nice mod. @Geti any chance that we could have this in-game? The previous passable (by team) ones were buggy as hell, I think these would be nice.
     
  3. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

    Messages:
    3,730
    Would like to see it tested on some server properly. Concerned about the perf implications but its indeed a better solution than current (though a few select older players will wag their hands and i told you so about trap blocks rabble rabble).

    So yes, a chance. Not just gonna pull it in wholesale untested though :D
     
  4. Alpha-Penguin

    Alpha-Penguin Bison Rider

    Messages:
    72
    These Trap Blocks look awesome, defiantly need them in official!!!
     
  5. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Haxor

    Messages:
    590
    Who's good at hosting servers so that I can test this?
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2016 ---
    You probably noticed the use of onTick(). Well, doors do just about exactly the same check on every tick, so I don't think it will be a problem. But obviously this needs to be tested regardless.
     
    Geti likes this.
  6. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Haxor

    Messages:
    590
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2016
    Magmus, blackjoker77777 and Geti like this.
  7. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    3,730
    Tick functions are indeed heavier - this is exactly why doors are as expensive as they are -> door cancer causes some serious issues if left unchecked :) I'm a bit anxious about adding more things like that, especially as people tend to make big lines of traps.

    After the current bout of admin stuff and getting a build out we'll be looking at getting those modded servers working, maybe we can fit these in.
     
  8. EhRa

    EhRa Ooooooof Staff Alumni Donator
    1. KRPG

    Messages:
    810
    This mod/Tweak seems amazing, a very good change to the current trap blocks. This should definitely be added into the game, of course after the required testing.
     
    Alpha-Penguin and Magmus like this.
  9. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Haxor

    Messages:
    590
    The vast majority of blocks will just be computing getTouchingCount() = 0 per tick, and stopping there. Those cancer towers made of latices of wood doors are pretty common and don't seem to crash servers.
    Is there a hook function that is just activated by a keypress? And can I temporarily add the trap block as a listener to the player CBlob@ (as in the event listener pattern)? That would be the ideal way to do this (bind at the start of collision, unbind at end of collision), but I feel like if it were possible, doors would already work that way.
    Otherwise, is there a way to disable/enable certain hooks (onTick) at will?
    Also, the official docs are down so I can't find much out except by searching the existing source.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2017, Original Post Date: Aug 11, 2016 ---
    Makmoud put a server up right now @Geti (new trap block implementation server). We got a test going with a few people coming and going. It seems to work as intended. Not sure what you want in terms of an official validation, or if an official testing format exists. For now, just trust me™.
     
  10. makmoud98

    makmoud98 You are already DEAD Forum Moderator Staff Alumni Tester

    Messages:
    586
    what he means is i think they tried to implement something similar to this, but then there were glitches where it would make you go through sometimes even when you dont press down. just get a match going 10v10 on there and let it play out for as long as possible. see if anyone complains
     
  11. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    It was added to the game once and later removed.
    Don't make the same mistake twice. Also, remember this?

    Performance implications aside, I don't understand how this is considered better.
    The idea has been tested in practice before and I've seen it cause tremendous irritation.
    It's solves a small problem while worse issues will appear:
    • Accidental crouch
      Most commonly a trap is sealed with downward facing platforms.
      An accidental crouch will entrap any teammates above - even those who didn't crouch.
      The most common reaction to this would be to create an escape route - ruining the trap.
      Sometimes a trap contains a saw. In this case, it'll kill a teammate and is thereby deactivated.

    • Team stair
      Trap blocks are often used as a team-only stair on the sides of structures.
      This functionality will be impaired. If someone opens a trap block others will fall down.

      GIF.gif

      Consider multiple teammates trying to climb these stairs at the same time.
      It'll be impossible unless someone backs off.
    These happen often.

    Plox, wanna fite, m9?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    makmoud98 likes this.
  12. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist THD Team Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    506
    Agreed. It's more of an annoyance than an improvement.
     
  13. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    Yep, there's tickIfTag and runFlags, search the source for example usage (it's Saturday so I'm not gonna do a big writeup now, sorry) - the main problems you'll run into is them not being synced (nor should they be) -> hard to predict behaviour on net, and the difficulty of thinking through every possible state change and making sure it doesn't get "stuck" one way or the other.

    I'd be happy to test this kind of thing on the modded server, as I said. I've got a feeling it'd be an easy testing ground for this kind of thing with CTF + <suggested mod> + custom heads?

    We don't have an "official process" for testing this kind of stuff - a lot of it's based on community climate and opinion (eg see fuzzle's post above), as well as any obvious implementation flaws (if fps tanks using your changes we're not interested).
     
  14. ShnitzelKiller

    ShnitzelKiller Haxor

    Messages:
    590
    I've lost so many matches because of noobs building trap blocks in contested areas. New players are constantly confused when it is explained to them what trap blocks actually do ("What? Enemies can go through them but teammates can't? That's pointless", one literally said, who had been trying to "trap" an enemy by surrounding him with trap blocks). I consider this the greater problem. Most traps aren't well built enough that you can't get out of them after falling in, and these are the ones that cause the most harm with the current trap blocks. Those that are could easily have an exit door (except saw traps as you said), since the players building them are more likely to know what they're doing. These trap blocks suffer much less from "accidental crouching" than the previous attempt, where you could fall through randomly even if you weren't pressing down. It literally checks that you press the key (or if you're below it), which I would think is hard to do by accident when standing on an obvious trap. Better to make some teammate have to suicide than to give an enemy squad a safe haven for the entire match.

    If I could make these act like platforms instead of actually opening for teammates, they wouldn't have the extra annoying problems while being climbed either.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    Osmal likes this.
  15. epsilon

    epsilon Assonist THD Team Forum Moderator Donator Tester
    1. Gather Oceania
    2. KAG World Cup 2018

    Messages:
    506
    The block can just be renamed to "Trapdoor" since trapdoors collapse when you stand on it. The player will have to figure out themselves who it collapses for. This could possibly help with new players misunderstanding how they work.
    Will this mean you are also able to drop through them as well as jump up through it without teammates falling through? I was thinking of this as a potential idea but what would happen to arrows if they come in contact with the block. Do they just pass through from every direction or will it collide with it, even if there is a player sitting inside it? If it were the latter you could potentially stand inside them and be immune to arrows. Hopefully you understand what I mean. ::P:

    This still won't fix the issue of teammates accidentally falling into spike traps with platforms and having to mine themselves out/suicide. I think the only way to fix this if the trap blocks included the function of the platform. Trap blocks have a coloured top (depending on your team, either red or blue) and a grey bottom so maybe if you rotate the block it decides the direction of the platform. Maybe the coloured side is the solid side which enemies can't pass through. I would really like to see how these function in game.
     
  16. Fuzzle

    Fuzzle Grand Grumbler

    Messages:
    297
    A 'solid side' has been discussed before.
    It was implemented by @Skinney.
    The idea was shot down by @Geti iirc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2017
    epsilon likes this.
  17. Geti

    Geti Please avoid PMing me (poke a mod instead) THD Team Administrator Global Moderator

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    It was indeed, though I wouldn't put it quite that harshly - I just felt that they were a little too effective, very "single-use", and didn't do anything about enemies jumping into your traps to use them as access to the underside of your tower - it only countered the "trap shark" knight camping.

    The current traps are fairly versatile, they're just a huge pest when the team turns them against you as only builders can do anything about them - which is a problem when most of the time the guy who misplaced them is that builder. I feel like a way to move through them is probably the ideal solution for the time being, we just didn't have an implementation that people were happy with.